Erin Inquires: Can you tell me how Kinoki Detox Foot Pads work or is it a hoax? It is a product that you place on your feet to remove the toxins from your body.
The Left Brain de-feets Kinoki:
I’m going with HOAX on this one, Erin.
The power of vinegar
According to their website, Kinoki Detox Foot Pads claim to draw harmful toxins through the bottom of your feet by using distilled bamboo vinegar. All you do is place the pads on the soles of your feet. As you sleep, the vinegar sucks the evil toxins from all your organs, through your blood stream, until they pass through the bottom of your foot where they are absorbed by the pad. It works on all kinds of contaminants including heavy metals, metabolic waste, microscopic parasites, mucous and even cellulite. You can tell it really works because as the pad absorbs toxins it changes color from white to gray-black.
What a load of crap!
The idea that toxins can be sucked out of your body through the soles of your feet is completely absurd. Dr. Stephen Barrett, M.D., part of the Quackwatch network, did a great job of debunking detox foot patches. He points out that skin is not a permeable membrane, so substances will not easily flow out of the body through the skin. And even if materials could pass through the skin this way, that’s not how detoxification works. True detox involves the liver and kidneys working together to filter the blood. The skin just doesn’t work that way; all it can do is emit sweat, which contains water and salt (and a little sebum).
The Beauty Brains bottom line
This entire concept is so unscientific that it boggles the mind. Yet, even Amazon.com sells detox pads like this! Let the buyer beware!
Want more Beauty Brains brilliance? Get your copy of the Beauty Brains book here.
Note: Comments on this post have been closed due to the fact that they are slowing down the system. If you would like to discuss the topic further, go to the Kinoki Foot pad discussion on our forum.
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Well stated, Patricia — the same applies to acupunture. Some people are just too skeptical and stubborn. It is okay to be skeptical, but they shouldn’t dismiss it until you know from your own experience. Regarding the foot pads, they do come with a money-back guarantee if they don’t work, so there is nothing to lose.
I am not necessarily a believer in these pads but I do have a question. If the skin is not a permeable membrane, how do things like the nicotine patch and birthcontrol patch work? My doctor explained to me when I tried the bc patch that you skin does absorb what you put on it into your bloodstream….hence the patches. I have no idea if it works the other way letting things be taken out too.
Megan,
You are so right — the skin is the largest organ of the human body. Their are also patches containing scapolamine which are put behind the ear to prevent motion sickness. I think there is more to be discovered about what the skin can and cannot do.
Megan, your skin IS a “permeable membrane,” and that’s how *real* patches to deliver medicine work. (You can also soak up lotsa *bad* things through your skin by accident, too, unfortunately.) It doesn’t work the other way around, though; your liver and kidneys are what clean toxins from the body, not your skin. Putting a patch on your foot doesn’t work like a magnet yelling, “Hey, bad things! Come down here, slide out through the pores, and stick to me!” The bad things are up in your liver, preparing to be excreted, and they can’t hear the message all the way down on your foot.
Patricia, I don’t hafta try the patches because I paid attention in biology class and know how the body works. neednt send my money off, crossing my fingers that some goofy-ass clown somewhere will send me some magical foot pads that will “detoxify” me because my kidneys and liver suddenly forgot how!
To add to what Lipstick Face says, some things can penetrate the skin while other things can not. This is why scientists haven’t been able to come up with a patch that delivers Insulin. It would be much more desirable than people having to stick themselves with a needle every day.
Star,
I’ll ignore your ad hominem and straw man attacks as they don’t add much to the discussion. Your lack of proof for your position has led you to put words in my mouth that I would never say.
Your authority is a book. The authority I choose to believe is the American Medical Association who states that
“There is little evidence to confirm the safety or efficacy of most alternative therapies. Much of the information currently known about these therapies makes it clear that many have not been shown to be efficacious. Well-designed, stringently controlled research should be done to evaluate the efficacy of alternative therapies.”
I also read the latest research as linked above that says sham acupuncture works just as well as “real” acupuncture. What is your explanation for that? Mine is that it’s just a placebo effect.
Authorities don’t mean much to me. The truth doesn’t belong to any individual or group. But you can’t hide from the results of scientific research.
You say you are skeptical and yet you put your faith 100% in your experiences. I doubt my own senses and know how easily I’m fooled. That’s why I put more faith in rigorous scientific research than I do in any individual’s experience. How you can be 100% positive that acupuncture works is beyond me when a number of studies have shown that it doesn’t work.
I look forward to any research (beyond anecdotal stories) that you can provide. Right now, I can’t find anything that proves acupuncture is anything more than a placebo. But I’m open to the possibility that I’m wrong. Are you?
Beauty Brains, That’s your problem if you believe I’m using ad hominem and straw man attacks.
My authority is not just a book, Taber’s is a well-respected reference and dictionary for medical students and doctors. Webster’s Dictionary is also used daily and is not bashed as just a book. I do respect the American Medical Association’s views; however, most grants they provide are for Western-based research. Therefore, of course “there is little evidence to confirm the safety or efficacy…”. When the AMA conducts and provides grants for alternative medicine such as acupunture, perhaps we can get the definitive answer everyone wants.
My explanation about “sham” acupuncture working as well as “real” acupuncture is that acupuncture may just be acupuncture and needs no “sham” or “real” before it.
I am skeptical, but I don’t believe I have ever said put my faith 100% into my experiences. All I meant was in my case, it helped and in my mother’s case it worked and her doctors simply had no explanation how it could have worked other than acupuncture, which by the way, they did admit they’d love to see more research. I would have been 100% positive if my Mother would not have died, but as I’ve stated before I’m just happy she was relieved of some of her pain.
I agree that most all humans can be easily fooled, but I also know that Western-based medicine has it’s failures also. I really believe we haven’t even begun to tap into what can be done by humans in terms of any kind of medical or mental challenge.
I’m most definitely open to the possibility that I’m wrong about acupuncture, but I will gather all the information I can. I don’t know if it will all fit in your blog, but I’ll continue to post what I find.
We are both looking for the same thing and that “thing” is answers and proof.
Hey, Brains: Thanks *mucho* for the very bueno link to http://www.theskepticsguide.org/logicalfallacies.asp I enjoyed it a lot, going “Yes! I’ve seen that!” and I’m sure I’ll be able to refer to it bunches in the future! I’ve been online since 1983 (not a typo), and have seen thousands upon thousands of instances of every single one of the twenty logical fallacies (and several of them right here in this blog post!). Now you know how to *really* drive traffic to your site: pick on a quacky piece of drivel, and watch your bandwidth get chewed up!
The fact you wont try something and yet stand firm in yer mind that it is indeed not true or fale is retarded, you are infact retarded and a moron, yes i came to insult you, because of ppl like you the world was thought flat, no way we can brake the speed of sound, no way could we got the moon!
how dumb can you be to say something is bull, when in fact you dont have any of yer facts correct, for one. THE SKIN CAN TAKE IN AND LET OUT ANYHITNG THE BODY WANTS!
case in point, drink yer piss for a while.
after a bit you will smell like it and u wil have to wash more often to rid yer skin of odd build up(toxins).
or if you will, how about a patch to help you stop smokin?? YER SKIN CAN TAKE IT IN!!! but not let other things out??(again yer logic is flawed) my point is you dont know crap about the skin so you just assume(not the ass part) this foot pad thing wont work, thus why you are a retard. do the world a favor and crawl back in the rock u came from and kick the stick, for the good of man kind. because its clear for you BRAIN ppl. you are all closed minded retards. nuff said.
and yes i did insult you. because you insult logic and REASON. you have none.
Its yer way or no way.
godless, full of hate. its clear to me now, mom should have given u more hugs or sumthing.
get a life and go out in the world and TRY the things you bash on. or u can be full of crap and just impact yer thought on everyone.(as fact)
I for one will buy them…TEST THEM and then see IF I FEEL BETTER, feck what you say..feck what she or he says, what i say goes for ME. good enough? try it or shut yer cake hole.
the next jack off that states that this product is bull, and yet has not had them on for a week or what have you, just do us a favor and go jump into traffic. the world will not need yer stupid retard infested closed minded DNA.
l8r on.
p.s. there will be errors of spellin and grammer, have fun.
DahMainMan:
Thanks for your well written comments. I’ll get right on that piss test you suggested.
PS Just for the record, the Left Brain is the only one here who’s godless.
WOW
“Man” – it’s goin take more den a few fut pads to cleer out dem tocksins u got.
I recommend yoga and meditation.
Provide some peer scientific research and, this should be simple, spectographic analysis of a used foot pad, then perhaps I would be prepared to consider the magic foot pad as something less absurd than magic beans.
i was wondering. if these do work, how would you stop them from pulling out the minerals and such that you need?
star: i think you are missing the brains point about fake acupuncture. tests were given and people believed that they were given acupuncture when in fact they were tricked, given a placebo basically(i guess just poked or something), and the results were basically the same as the patients given actual acupuncture.
i don’t know enough about the body to know if it “absolutly” can excrete toxins through tthe skin, but i know that after a night of heavy tequila drinking i will smell it on my skin the whole day, even after showers.
My friend suffered from clusters of hives for almost a year. Every Dr and specialist gave her strong medicine, but they always came back as soon as she stopped taking it. Some medicines even made her spot blood in her urine so she stopped taking it. Hives returned just as strong. She finally decided to see a real Chinese herbalist in Chinatown. He checked her pulse, tounge and other stuff. Mixed up a batch of herbs and had her take them for 3 weeks, then come back and he change the mixture each time. After 2 months, they vanished. She stopped taking the herbs and it’s been a year, no hives. Her body naturally re-balanced itself. Western medicine deals with the effects of your illness, Chinese medicine deals with getting your bado back in balance to heal itself. While it may not work for everything, I think a balance of both types of medicine should be considered.
curious, your post made Pepsi squirt up my nose! *Excellent* point! If the Kinoki foot pads DID work, they’d hafta be smart enough *not* to remove things we NEED, like electrolytes, minerals, vitamins, amino acids, and, of course, dihydrogen monoxide! That’d be a pretty tall order: a foot pad which knows enough to remove bad things, but leave behind the good things!
Gary, your story reminds me of the different ways you can cure a cold. If you take [insert your favorite treatment here] your cold will go away in 7 days. But if you do nothing it will be gone in about a week.
You can’t be sure whether it was the Chinese herbalist that made the hives go away or whether they would’ve just gone away on their own.
Curious, what does “getting your body back in balance” mean? What is this magical “balance” that you are referring to?
beauty:what? i think you have me mistaken with another poster. i didn’t mention anything about a body back in balance
beauty: never mind, my bad. i wasn’t paying attention
Curious, that wasn’t directed to you. That was a question as in, “I’m curious…”
Ah, the inefficiencies of blogging communications.
OK…so speculation and personal scientific biases aside, has anyone actually conducted a test, or know of a test conducted in which the level of toxins in a persons body were checked before and after the use of “foot detoxification”? Or, does anyone have any “physical” personal experience where foot detox has helped (i.e. something more than just a “I feel great after using foot detox” kind of comment)? If not, then both sides of the foot detox argument should be quite.
i really came here to see whether anyone had used these things or not. I have an open mind to alternative medicine but there is so much quackery out there. on one hand, some people here debunk accupuncture which has absolutely worked for me concerning pain relief. after reading this whole page it seems no one has direct experience with this product. i can only say my skepticism comes in part from the varied prices of the treatment itself. one company offers the product for around fifteen dollars while another offers the same for 179 dollars. price has nothing to do with whether something works but hey, almost a two hundred dollar difference?
this forum has traveled from leeches to lipstick but after this whole page, no one can say they tried the bloody things or if they work. where did this thread begin? why?
sickboy, no one is going to be doing any research on “detoxifying foot pads” any more than they’ll be doing research on crystal balls. It’s not founded on science.
lipstick face: doing a toxicology test on the elements found in the footpads before and after use to prove or disprove their abilities is not scientific? Perhaps we should just go back to bleeding patients out of thier wounds to heal them? Remember, everything in the world of science is an evolving theory.
I don’t understand this notion that if you haven’t tried something then you can’t rightfully judge whether it can work or not.
That’s nonsense. If something has to break general principals of biology, you can feel confident rejecting it without trying.
If I told you I have a magic wand where I tap your wrist and it removes all poisons from your body, do you really have to try it before you would reject whether it works or not?
Sucking toxins out your feet is not based on science. So, there’s no need to even try it. It’s no different than a magic wand.
I had no intention of commenting but, in a refreshing change to my usual online reading, I am actually enjoying the banter.
Like the majority of you, I have not tried the detox foot pads. Not so much because I don’t think they will work but more because I am not feeling particularly toxic these days.
Regardless, I wanted say something about the following comment made by thebeautybrains who said…
“You say you are skeptical and yet you put your faith 100% in your experiences. I doubt my own senses and know how easily I’m fooled. That’s why I put more faith in rigorous scientific research than I do in any individual’s experience.”
Why would anyone NOT put 100% faith in their own experiences? Isn’t that what the phrase, “seeing is believing” is all about?
If you experienced relief (in any measure) from a medical malady for which “rigorous scientific research” states there is to be no such relief, would you not have faith in what you experienced over what science suggests? How does one simply bow down to the “rigorous scientific research” and surrender their experience?
If relief is the end goal, what difference does it make where that relief comes from – be it medicine, foot pads, acupuncture or the aforementioned tequila binge? So what if your senses are fooled? You have reached the end goal. Isn’t that the point?
If I am healed of something because a scientist gave me water rather than medicine – AKA placebo – would that not suggest that I am capable of healing myself and that the medicine is quackery? Why is it common thought that the ailment must not have existed and that I am the quack if water was the cure?
Could it not be that a person’s thoughts assist whatever remedy they are given in reaching the final outcome? (Placebo or not.)
I know this comment is twice removed from the ideas in the original topic but I just wanted to add my random thoughts which were drawn out – yes, through my skin – onto this newly bookmarked website.
Thanks for the interesting reading.
I found this page while searching for the foot patches on the internet. I stayed and read hoping to find some scientific data either for or against the pad — food for thought before I purchase them. What I found instead was a lot of opinions and personal attacts that did nothing but make this banter not only catty, but lose every aspect of dependability. Perhaps instead of stating only opinions based on a specific mindset, you should acually conduct poles of users — or better yet, try the product yourself, before condemning it.
I’ve tried body wraps before. They didn’t work for me, but there are others I know who swear by them. When you are wrapped, they put bags over your hands and feet to catch any “condensation” that may drip from either. The condensation from mine was usually just a bit cloudy. One day as I was wrapped, the lady performing the tasked mentioned a friend of hers who came in for wraps frequently. On her job the woman comes into contact daily with a bright yellow chemical. Each time she is wrapped, even though she is freshly showered, the bags on her hands and feet fill with bright yellow water.
Another friend of mine had a few drops of strong chemical drop onto his finger while on the job. He washed it off quickly and didnt think much of it even though the warnings on the label stated never to allow it to touch your skin. 3 months later he was diagnosed with testicular cancer == he feels there is a link.
I do feel the skin absorbs and that it excretes. Whose to say a combination of herbs cant trigger the body to let loose of a few toxins. You can’t say that it can’t do this. You have not tried the patches, nor have you purchased them to have someone analyse their contents. Nor have you had someone try them and have the used pads analysed for changes.
In short, the experts here are like the blind leading the blind. I don’t know. They don’t know. The difference is, I’m going to try the patches. I can get some for about $20. It won’t be wasted money if they work. It will be a cheap lesson learned if they don’t.
The only thing I’ll have wasted on the whole experience is the time I spent reading the cat fighting on this website. That accomplished nothing.
Oh, for crying out loud: for all the people moaning here about not having “analyzed” foot pads, then buy the danged things, use ‘em, then take ‘em to a lab and have ‘em analyzed. See how many “toxins” they’ve sucked out of your contaminated bodies, then you can quit crying that no one’s testing ‘em. You’ll have your own proof.
All the questions raised in the previous comments have been addressed. Clearly someone who’s website links to one called “buy-detox-footpads.com” is just a sales person making up a story to trick the gullible.
I agree with lipstick face. If you’ve read through all the comments here and you still think these things have a chance to actually do something, go buy them and convince yourself. Just don’t tell the rest of us they are actually doing anything for you beyond a placebo effect.
Actually, if feeling better is your goal, why don’t you donate the money you would’ve wasted on these foot pads to the poor? That’ll make you feel better and have just as much impact on your health as a magic foot pad.
Well, before anyone believes Stephen Barrett of Quackwatch, do some research on him. He was a flunky psychiatrist hired by the drug companies to be the media shill to discredit all alternative health remedies that had proven results. He even admits that. Google him. You will even see that he is facing several lawsuits for libel and defamation. Please use some credible argument if you plan to bash the patch. The skin is not permeable???? Er, birthcontrol patches, pain patches, antibiotic gels and salves, smokers patch, WHAT a dork!
Here is my experience with them: I had banged my elbow and it swelled up like a golf ball. There was little pain, but it was very ugly and mushy to the touch. It looked hideous. I iced it for a week, tried icy hot gels, kept it immobile … and nothing worked. I looked up on the internet to find out what it might be and decided it could be tennis elbow or “bursitus”. It linked to several procedures that involved a doctor sucking out the fluid with a syringe, that would be painful and the swelling could return. There was a Australian doctor who developed a patch with THE SAME INGREDIENTS,Dr. Danniel, he explained how it worked and plenty of testamonials and pics. For $20+S/H a package, I ordered it. A week later when it arrived, my elbow was STILL bulged out. This is about a month now. The first morning after I removed the patch, (it was white when applied) was YUCKO BROWN and wet like gravy!!! NO LIE. The swelling was down about 1/3. After three more patches it was back to NORMAL. The last patch only had a tiny spot or two of brown but 95% of it was still white and dry – proving it was removing stuff the body considers waste. AMEN. Don’t try it if you don’t believe it, but WHY ON EARTH would you condemn something you know NOTHING about?! I have purchased BOXES of these and use on my feet. I have given patches to others who love the way they help diminish pain and help sleep. You will be amazed at the first time the brown goop comes out! The fact that it does nothing on some areas of the body, but are active where toxins accumulate, says enough to me. Your opinion that Barrett does a “Great job” clearly shows your ignorance. Read up and educate yourself, otherwise you will be a slave to propaganda.
Maura,
That kind of ad hominem attack is worthless and doesn’t advance the debate. It merely demonstrates a lack of evidence for your position. Science isn’t politics where you can dismiss people merely because of who they are.
I’ll tell you what, the next time you have a real illness like cancer, diabetes or a broken arm, put a pad on it. I’m sure it’ll make you feel better. For people who haven’t been separated from their critical brains, go get yourself looked at by a real doctor.
Will it help anyone at all (who apparently doesn’t even bother to read most of the posts in this thread) that even chiropractors know this is a scam? Check out that short thread. One (smart) fellow tried the pads and woke up to find goop on his pads several mornings in a row. Curious, he took a clean pad and put a few spoonsful of water on the pad and watched it … and it turned black and goopy before his eyes. No contact with his foot was needed!
As for testing yourself for toxins, they’ll explain to you that “Urine, blood, and stool are all more accepted methods. You could even have your hair, bones, or skin examined for toxins” than used foot pads.
@Maura: Of COURSE there are a lot of lawsuits against Dr Barrett! The scammers are angry with him for calling them on the carpet! They also get really angry with the FTC for fining them hundreds of thousands (and millions) and for putting them in jail! Why *wouldn’t* they be angry? They get a good scam going, vacuuming the money out of the wallets of the stupid and gullible, and he points out their foolishness.
I gather everyone missed this week’s episode of “The Real Hustlers.” There was an appalling but enlightening segment in which the Hustlers went to the Farmers Market here in NYC with a cream they’d made from a standard lotion they’d put in a blender with parsley. That’s it. Then they poured it into bottles and jars, put high price tags on it, and then made wild-ass claims about it (“If you cut yourself during shaving, it stops the bleeding. It heals bruises.” etc.) telling them the ingredient was the rare “Petroselinum crispum” (that’s Latin for parsley). Another hustler played a shill who came along and bought a bagful of conditioner (“You were out of the it last week; do you have a new shipment in? My girlfriend really needs it”) and the fools were snapping it up like crazy, $150 and more.
Are you following along here? YOU CAN JUST MAKE CRAP UP. So long as you sound convincing and you play on peoples’ fears (or, hell, make up a new fear!) then OFFER THEM A SOLUTION, you have a license to print money, at least until you’re caught. (Heck; even then, it may not be the end; there’re some well-known scammers who do prison time, get out, and go right back to it, and a couple more who do scam after scam after scam after scam!) If you don’t engage your brain, you’ll continue to be a victim, lining their pockets. That’s why they continue to exist, because there’s a new sucker born every … you know what I’m gonna say.
Anyone in this day and age who still thinks acupuncture should be listed as a ‘quackery’ needs a thorough re-examination of how they are receiving their information. I would guess that trusting sites like quackwatch and JREF plays a major role.
There are rigorous, controlled studies coming out every month confirming that acupuncture indeed does work and often much better than conventional medicine, as in the recent German study on back pain. Why would medical insurance widely cover it if there was no proof it worked? This notion that there’s no proof is absolutely and positively false.
Please realize that much of the information we receive through the mainstream media is highly distorted. Everyone is encouraged to do their own research and not rely on others who may have an agenda.
As for the foot pads – I have no idea if they work or not. I would like to see a scientific study to confirm the claimed results. But one thing is for sure, there are many, many things that we include in our daily lives that are toxic and harmful such as fluoride, mercury-based preservatives, aspartame and OTC and prescribed pharmaceuticals so I think bamboo vinegar should hardly be the focus of an attack.
Why don’t you talk about the millions of women who think Splenda and aspartame are HEALTHY choices, when in reality they are willingly poisoning themselves?
I see this all the time in my practice.
And for those who blindly accept all that western medicine offers us, you would be served well by studying the history of Western medicine. It has long been intertwined with corporate interests, monopolistic strangleholds and socialized control over available medical care. It has hardly been an altruistic force in people’s lives.
This puzzles me. If the skin is impermeable why do we have nicotine and birth control patches? I saw a TV show once where the killer put snake venoum on the victims car steering wheel. It seems to me thease doctors are self proclaimed gods that soeake out of both sides of their mouths.
Don Waaland, no one said the skin is impermeable. We’ve typed at length about nicotine patches and other transdermal delivery systems. Scroll up and READ. Then read the bottles on the poisons under your sink that say “Avoid contact with skin. If contact occurs, call the poison control center immediately.”
Come on, people: READ! Pay attention! Comprehend!
okay, this is crap. i just watched the commercial again and when they are showing the blackened pad, telling you about the diferent things this product can clean out of your system, they claim that these pads remove CELLULITE. as if FAT were a toxin and could be drawn through the skin. what a load
Interesting discussion. Here is my opinion:
First of all I am not saying these pads work or not. However, on the opinion of a few of the posters on this thread (Right Brian, Lipstick) that modern scientific research can “prove” something beyond a doubt is a little disconcerting.
I firmly believe testing is a good and necessary scientific method. It defiantly helps to build usable knowledge on a subject. I am all for more knowledge. The more testing the better and the better tests the better.
However, Medical studies (or any scientific study) done with the best scientific method at that time can be fallible. Some things are easily verified now because we have better ways to test and better equipment to test with (chemical make up a cell, law of gravity, magnetic field of the planets, the width of an atom, ect). Some things are not as easily verified because we do not have the ability to fully test (physically sampling a 1000 light year distant star’s atmosphere to determine the actual types of gases present). . Just a few examples of scientific proofs that have been overturned in the last 1000 years:
The earth is flat.
A heavier than air object can not fly.
The sun revolves around the earth.
Radioactive material can cure aliments (See the history of Radium)
You might say these are “straw man” arguments. I admit I did not take the time to look up the term. However, I honestly believe that to blindly accept the modern scientific method (which is nothing more than “currently our best guess”)is fallacy. Sure there are many things that have been shown to be repeatable time and time again that we can better put our trust in and use as a tool to better understand how the universe works and how to solve problems (health, energy, food supply, etc), but to blindly believe that something is true, and always will be true because it has been tested to the best of our abilities at this time in human history is just dumb.
The other interesting discussion in this thread that I would like to comment on is the discussion of acupuncture.
Take some of the most basic drugs of western medicine. Aspirin, Ibuprofen, fluoride, etc. They ALL have side effects. Sure some of the more benign drug’s side effects are far outweighed by their benefits and have been proven effective over decades or centuries of use, however, they still have side effects. Now, it doesn’t take long to wander into the territory of drugs that are used by western medicine that make you wonder if the side effects of this drug really warrant the benefit I am getting from taking it? Just listen to the side effects listed quickly at the end of the advertisements of the latest sex enhancement, birth control, or allergy drug on TV.
Brain and Lipstick, one thing you have avoided addressing in your discussion with Star is the fact (“fact” being used based upon the actual successful human experiments) that people can forgo the need of potentially dangerous anesthetic during surgery with the use of acupuncture (which is in your words is not scientifically proven to work). Now, I will not deny that if you gave me a Novocain shot in my gums that I would not be able to feel any pain during oral surgery. Also, I think we can both agree that Novocain has been tested enough and has enough real world use that we can say that it will block the nerves from sending pain signals to the brain. However, I can also assume that you will agree that there are negative side effects of Novocain.
Now it is perfectly understandable to me that someone would choose acupuncture over Novocain if it can achieve the same result. Ok, please allow me to spice up my comment on this thread by talking with a bit of sarcasm and vim and vigor (I will try to keep it a few levels below Dahmainman… lol.
Hmmmmm…. Lets see…. I can either take a “hard” drug that will make me num for hours, make it hard to use my tongue to form words and talk cleary for hours, make it difficult to keep the saliva from drooling out of the side of my mouth for hours, potentially increase my pulse and blood pressure, make me feel “loopy” or “out of it” … or I can use acupuncture. Oh… wait… I can not use acupuncture….it is just a placebo effect….it can not really scientifically block pain …Oh crap. Wait… it works. Hmmm… this is cool. I am lying here getting oral surgery and with no Novocain. Wait… this is only a placebo effect. I say I need to bottle up this placebo and sell it because I can use it to get oral surgery done and I do not have to use Novocain. Cool. I really do not care what the scientific research says… something is blocking the signals my pain nerves in my mouth normally send to my brain. I do not care what the studies on acupuncture have concluded. I just got my oral surgery done with no Novocain.
Ok back to rational discussion. Look, if something of “Eastern Holistic Medicine” (pressure point use, acupuncture, yoga, exercise, or meditation) can keep me from needing to take “Western” medicine (drugs), I am all for it. I think you (yes even you Brain and Lipstick) would be foolish to fully rely on just “scientifically tested and proven” drugs for all your health needs. You have to admit that there is plenty of evidence that America is over prescribed and over medicated. Some of it is the drug companies propaganda and desire to make a buck and please stock holders, some of it is our own laziness (see diet pills), some of it is even “our best scientific research up till now says this will work and it is the ONLY thing that will work”. So, I think we owe it to ourselves as a human race to always explore the best healthful, least toxic, minimally invasive, solutions to our health needs as much as possible before just relying on the latest “scientifically tested drug”.
With that all said, I love science. In fact I make my living working for Genetic pharmaceutical companies (Chiron (now Bayer), Genentech, Inhale (owned by Pfizer), the list could go on), Modern medicine is amazing and scientific research is amazing. The newer Magnetic resonance machines are just SOOO cool (sorry losing rationality again). However, modern science would be well served by not discounting the fact that there might be a better way that is (being redundant here sorry) more healthful, less toxic, more minimally invasive, solutions to our health needs, and holistic and to understand that eastern medicine can be another tool in the doctors black bag.
Thanks for reading. Sorry it is so long.
PS. To the owners of this web site: It would be really helpful if you time and date stamped each comment entry on your blog so it would be easier to tell when the discussion started, how long it lasted and whether or not it is a cold thread.
Hi, My two cents:
As you know if you read health news, we’re ALWAYS finding out all kindsa new stuff about things that’s been tested like crazy, like the shock news we got this week about lowering diabetics’ blood sugar increases their risk of heart disease! Sometimes, it seems as if you can’t test TOO much!
Still holds, though, that you can’t just go around making asinine claims about loony-tuney crap like “toxin-absorbing foot pads” and then clowns come out of the closet and say “If you don’t believe they work, then test them!” That’s just dumb.
FWIW, I’d *happily* try acupuncture for dental work IF IT WERE OFFERED, but it’s not on offer. Ever. That’s kinda telling, I think. I’d *love* to be able to leave the dentist’s office and apply my lipstick (something you can’t do when your lips are numb!), to be able to smile, to be able to speak without drooling and lisping, etc, but it’s not an option.
Moreover, I react REALLY badly to epinephrine, an ingredient in most local anesthetics, so there’s a giant red skull and crossbones on my chart so they’ll be sure to give me Carbocaine instead, a weaker and much shorter-acting local. Acupuncture would be a whole helluva lot easier if it were available. Seems to me that if it worked like gangbusters, they’d have acupuncturists on staff, but no one does, not even at dental schools like Columbia and NYU.
(And I *totally* agree with you on date- and timestamping posts!)
Lipstick,
Good point about acupuncture’s availability. Star do you have any advice about a good way to find an honest acupuncturist?
Like you lipstick I do not do well with most pain relief drugs and choose to medicate my sprained ankles (I play a lot of soccer and used to play a lot of basketball) with ice and rest and time rather than quickly downing the Tylenol with codeine pill that was just handed to me by my doctor after x-raying and wrapping my ankle. I try to look to “holistic” health solutions not because I think all modern western science is bunk …(no need to write another book here, you know where I am coming from) but because for me, I can not tolerate certain drugs and am highly sensitive to certain chemicals so I like to find try the holistic solutions first and then if those are not successful I am willing to try the drug solution. .
To be honest I have never used acupuncture. Also to be honest I want to try it, especially if it will work for me and prevent me from taking narcotics for pain relief. I live in the Bay Area of California so I would think I could find one around here if anywhere. Also, I have to be honest, I have never met anyone that has used acupuncture for oral surgery, but I have heard of it before reading Star’s comments. I have to imagine it is out there and is a viable (at least for some) method. I am going to look into it. I am sure you have heard of Kaiser Permanente. Say what you will about HMO’s but they are starting to embrace holistic health options in treatment. In fact, (I need to verify), but I think they even offer acupuncture. I need to call them. I wonder if they have foot pads? (Just kiding!)
Just to beat a dead horse, I’m treated at the VA, which has the benefit both of tons of government research and that of all the big-name universities, and I got to wondering about the VA’s policy on acupuncture. (Needless to say, the VA doesn’t squander resources, especially these days when, after many, many years of budget cuts, there’s a brand new flood of new vets.) I checked the VA site, and found a PDF document about acupuncture policy. Here is the document in its entirety:
CHAMPVA POLICY MANUAL
CHAPTER: 2
SECTION: 1.1
TITLE: ACUPUNCTURE AS ANESTHESIA
AUTHORITY: 38 CFR 17.270(a) and 17.272(a)(34)
RELATED AUTHORITY: 32 CFR 199.4(g)(40)
I. EFFECTIVE DATE
December 5, 1984
II. POLICY
Acupuncture is not a covered benefit for anesthesia or in any circumstance.
*END OF POLICY*
I have read all of these opinions.
I bought it. I have also tried it.
It really does draw something out of the
system, because the pads were very
discolored when I removed them the very
first time.
People should not discredit something
that they haven’t even tried. Someone
up above was badmouthing Chiropractic
when I will bet they have never seen one.
Personally, my chiropractor is considered
my Doctor. I see him once a week. I
have been seeing him once a week for
5 years. I made the first appointment
when I couldn’t walk without limping
with pain that was very bad. After
the first 30 days of treatment, I had
no more pain, and that was very real.
Not someones pipe dream.
Don’t knock it if you haven’t tried it.
I will finish using these patches that
I purchased, and then I will give anyone
interested my opinion about it. Many
natural remedies have been lost because
the AMA refused to check them out. I
think that it is worth the effort to
try it.
I just have to say that I have been on seven different medications for migraine in the last six years, and some of them had side effects that were worse than the migraines could ever be (calcium channel blockers, anyone?) and if I could find an acupuncturist here, or an authentic herbalist, I’d jump on it with both feet. Luckily, they pass after 12 to 72 hours whether I take a pill or not!(Yes, that was sarcasm.) Massage helps, but the only medication which works (sometimes)is a drug called Maxalt which raises my blood pressure to a scary degree. I have finally decided to just let them come and wait them out. The medications were not good for me.
That said, I believe in research. Stringent research. I just don’t believe that it answers all the questions. Anyone remember Phen-Fen? Or Zelnorm? Both jerked off the market because they were dangerous. And I’m sure that you are aware that there are various drugs and treatments available in other countries that have been shown (in those same rigorous scientific tests) to be effective, but are not currently available in the United States because those tests weren’t conducted here.
I may also add that the medication I am currently using (dreadfully expensive and FDA approved) for my migraines was only 8% more effective than placebo in the double-blind trials. I really don’t care. If it works, use it.
Your points about the effectiveness of other drugs is irrelevant when it comes to answering the question whether foot pads have any beneficial effect beyond the placebo effect. Toxins are just not removed from the body through your feet. That’s what the liver and kidneys are for.
For those of you who do not believe that toxins could come out through the skin, I am living proof! Someone had mentioned about Ion cleanse being at their chiro’s office. My chiro also has that and I did it. There is absolutely no possible way to fake the outcome of that session. All it is is a plain old foot bath with plain old water, but with an electrode that sends these negative ions through your body (conducted through the water). Within minutes, toxins are practically pouring out of your feet and it turns all kinds of colors, depending on the toxins in your body. And it is not even just colors, by the end of the session there is even very small “chunks” of cellular debris! It is really amazing to watch. It is no gimmick or act of magic. It is the real deal. And like somebody else said, “don’t knock it till you’ve tried it”.
And I for one believe these foot pads work. I have not tried them yet, but as I understand they work in very much the same way the ion cleanse does.
Someone here said that they were proven not to work. What I’m wondering is, when was it proven not to work? All I’ve seen is a whole lot of theories as to why it would not work. Has anybody actually tried these foot pads and is positive that they don’t work? Or better yet, how about somebody try them and send it to a lab for testing, then there will be a definitive answer. And some of you were scoffing at the fact that the bamboo vinegar could pull toxins out of the body. But if anybody had bothered to investigate, you would learn that it is just one of the ingredients…the most important ingredient is tourmaline. Now I am no scientist, so I can’t explain this perfectly, but basically the tourmaline has to do with negative ions and that is what mostly helps to pull the toxins out. I am just really shocked at closed-minded some of you are when you haven’t even got all of the facts right.
On the other hand, I might be skeptical too if I hadn’t experienced what I had. But I don’t think I would be posting on the internet about how it doesn’t work when I haven’t even tried it either. For all those who are trying to figure out fact from fiction…(and I mean no disrespect) please don’t go to message boards to find your answers. Do some real research about the products and hopefully you’ll find your answer.
I’m sorry, I just have more to say after looking at the skeptiod link someone offered. There were some interesting points made there, however, it mentioned that the detox foot baths have chemicals in it to make it change colors, and it absolutely DOES NOT. I saw myself, that there was only water in it. And yes, the electrode does corrode, but that only makes a slight orange-brown color. This is exactly how my water looked… first it was orange(possibly half of that was corrosion of the electrode), then it turned dark brown, and then by the end… it was greenish brown (mostly green) with a disgusting yellow-green froth/foam floating on the top. And at the bottom of the water, little black specks had settled. You tell me what kind of magic chemical can do all of those things! And it is on this basis that I believe in the foot pads! Before, I would have never thought that anything like that could come out of your feet, especially solid pieces of “stuff”. No, it doesn’t seem right and doesn’t seem possible, but there it is.
Erin,
Thanks for you comments. Of course, your endorsement of the product based on your own experience is not helpful for reasons spelled out numerous times in previous comments.
Are you some sort of super-human who couldn’t possibly be fooled by anyone?
The fact that you are basing your conclusion about whether toxins came out of you or not on the color of the water is just ridiculous. Real scientists would take the liquid, run it through an instrument like a mass spectrometer or IR and determine what chemicals are actually there.
Of course, since you are a super-human who couldn’t possibly be fooled by a chiropractor then further analysis is certainly not need.
Incidentally, it is impossible to prove ANYTHING doesn’t work. Therefore anyone can make up anything and then challenge someone to prove them wrong. That’s why logic and science demand that you prove that your thing works, not the other way around.
For we skeptics who would like to see some prove, do you have anything other than your own experience?
Still waiting true believers…
thebeautybrains: Obviously you didn’t read my post too closely. I tried to emphasize the fact that the water not only changed colors, but there were solids in the water. You tell me what chemical could be put in the water to produce that?? You keep going on and on about how you need proof of actual toxins in the water…I agree, there should be actual scientific proof of that. But you can’t begrudge me the fact that something had to come out of me, be it toxins or otherwise. I watched the water go in the foot bath and nothing else. There was no magical chemical reaction to fool me. I literally saw whatever it was exit through my feet. But to you that somehow means I’m gullible? Just like you would like to see proof that it is possible, I would like to see proof that it is IMPOSSIBLE. It seems to me that all you can say is that it couldn’t possibly work because it is so far fetched. I haven’t seen any definitive proof to prove your point either. All I’ve seen is links to other narrow-minded people’s sites who also don’t have any proof except for their own opinions.
You naysayers act like this topic isn’t even worth your time to investigate, but I think it is actually to cover up the fact that just like us believers, you don’t have a leg to stand on. All of us, whether we believe or not—none of us seem to have proof.
And frankly, the thing about the chiropractors….what’s the deal on that? Are you still in the dark ages? Do you really feel that they have nothing to offer our health? I would expect this kind of thinking maybe 10 or 20 years ago but now…there has been much forward thinking on the subject. Think about how 10 years ago most insurance companies(if not all) would not pay for chiropractor visits, because they thought, just like you, that they were quacks. Today, many allow chiropractor visits, obviously because they now know there are benefits. I myself have received relief from terrible neck pain and headaches by going to one.
So right now you think you are so smart because none of us have lab test results. But in 10 years or less, these kinds of detoxification that you consider bogus may be mainstream. And you are going to feel sooo stupid. I just feel bad for any people who came here with a neutral view on things and got swayed by your poisonous talk.
By the way…there is something else I would like proof of…your credentials. How do we all know you are who you say you are–a scientist? You could be some high school dropout looking for attention for all we know. There’s no PROOF. I, however, am just the average American consumer with thoughts and experiences and opinions of my own. I am not pretending to be something I’m not. ARE YOU?
By the way, I just looked at “who are the beauty brains” and it gives the impression that, this is a place to come to find…and I quote “unbiased” views. That could not be further from the truth. And it also gives the impression that, you guys care what we buy in regards to our health and our pocketbook. This is how the coversations on this page seem to go: a guest states their opinion(s), then thebeautybrains reply as if to say, “Okay thanks for your comment, now let’s tell you how dumb you are.” There is no sense of concern for the consumer. In my first post, I tried to be relatively polite. But it doesn’t really matter now since you people seem to prefer slinging insults in order to feel superior.
erin: if you want to talk down about people throwing insults, you should not offer your own. as for these pads, how do you think they would know that fat on the pad was cellulite? if in fact these do work, how can they possibly know where the fat came from? i also have been looking for the clinic that performed the trials, yet there is nothing of it on the net. no name is given and no proof is supplied to us, the consumer. they simply say thta it was tested, through the hair no less, and show a simple bar graph. who did the test? people who try these things, without proof are crazy. you can be placing harmful chemicals into your body and not even know it. as for finding things floating in the water fo your chemical bath, yes there are chemicals that could easily attach to your skin flakes that come off of your foot and form clumps. it is the process that is used to clean our drinking water. the chemical is clear and attaches to particles, making them sticky so that anything else that may be in the water will attach to it. don’t you think that solid particles, coming out through your foot would be painful?
Good thing this “Ion Cleanse” is pulling “small chunks” out from the blood vessels through the soles of the feet, since solid matter lodges in the heart and brain causing heart attacks and strokes! Good thing you good those “chunks” out of there! Those of us not “cleansing” are lucky we’re not all dead, decaying bodies, what with all our circulating “chunks”!
I gather no one went to the link I provided (sad face): If you take a Kinoki foot pad and put it on the counter, then pour a tablespoon of water on in, in a couple of hours, IT’LL DEVELOP BLACK GOOP ON IT, just like it would if you’d worn it on your foot overnight! There’s no magic in them thar footpads, people! It’s a scam!
here is another site that explains the foot bath colors
http://www.talkabouthealthnetwork.com/group/alt.health.oxygen-therapy/messages/4280.html
It’s really sad that this kind of ridiculous bullshit goes to debate. Those of you who think there is any benefit to these idiotic foot pads: rest easy knowing that morons like you make it much easier for the rest of us to become and stay rich.
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