Erin Inquires: Can you tell me how Kinoki Detox Foot Pads work or is it a hoax? It is a product that you place on your feet to remove the toxins from your body.
The Left Brain de-feets Kinoki:
I’m going with HOAX on this one, Erin.
The power of vinegar
According to their website, Kinoki Detox Foot Pads claim to draw harmful toxins through the bottom of your feet by using distilled bamboo vinegar. All you do is place the pads on the soles of your feet. As you sleep, the vinegar sucks the evil toxins from all your organs, through your blood stream, until they pass through the bottom of your foot where they are absorbed by the pad. It works on all kinds of contaminants including heavy metals, metabolic waste, microscopic parasites, mucous and even cellulite. You can tell it really works because as the pad absorbs toxins it changes color from white to gray-black.
What a load of crap!
The idea that toxins can be sucked out of your body through the soles of your feet is completely absurd. Dr. Stephen Barrett, M.D., part of the Quackwatch network, did a great job of debunking detox foot patches. He points out that skin is not a permeable membrane, so substances will not easily flow out of the body through the skin. And even if materials could pass through the skin this way, that’s not how detoxification works. True detox involves the liver and kidneys working together to filter the blood. The skin just doesn’t work that way; all it can do is emit sweat, which contains water and salt (and a little sebum).
The Beauty Brains bottom line
This entire concept is so unscientific that it boggles the mind. Yet, even Amazon.com sells detox pads like this! Let the buyer beware!
Want more Beauty Brains brilliance? Get your copy of the Beauty Brains book here.
Note: Comments on this post have been closed due to the fact that they are slowing down the system. If you would like to discuss the topic further, go to the Kinoki Foot pad discussion on our forum.
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Who’s the moron – maybe it is you?
I use them and I think they work and
I feel great, they make me feel more creative give me energy to make more money (money is your botton line and money is just another form of energy.)
How much energy do you have.
Maybe you should try thinking out of the box you may live
longer and happier and have more fun and yes more energy.
or we can keep the cash we have and just feel good about who and what we are. for that little boost of energy you might want to try a bit of exercise and a healthy diet. too many of you people are looking for the quick fix, and it just does not exist. quit the “i used it and feel great” crap and tell me what the lab found on the pads. not the bullshit the company feeds you, but a true and unbiased clinic that will let you know if this is possible.
I have again reviewed all of the responses to the question of whether or not foot pads work.
I have tried mine. That is my only point.
It is interesting that ALL of the negative
responses have been from those having
never tried it. Try it, it may work for
you.
Those who did use it had really nothing
bad to say about it.
You can all remember this. All an MD does
is treat symptoms. Then they ALL prescribe
some chemical concoctation for you to
ingest. If they were in the business
of prevention, they would all starve,
almost. Every now and then there is a
very real need for a Dr. I try not to
visit them but once a year, and that is
so that I can have the one pill I have to take for an inactive thyroid be
renewed for another year. We have this
rule followed by all medical doctors
because the abuse of prescription drugs
was rampant not that many years ago. It
was because they (MD’s) were never held
accountable for their actions.
I operated a chemical dependency half
way house for adolescents for 6 1/2 yrs.
It wasn’t natural remedys these kids were abusing.
So I will finish my foot pads which are
not product from any pharmaceutical
company, and give any natural remedy a
try if appropriate.
Some of these replys were excellent, and
I applaud you. Erin, and Maura were a
couple of them.
thebeatybrain needs to go back to the
drawing board most of the time.
It appears that all you do here is play
devils advocate. A new approach would
be refreshing.
marianne: and you still have shown no proof that these do work. just saying “I feel better, so they must work” is insane. if you truly read the responses you are aware of the placebo effect. all you have to do to convince the people here is show us something from a nonbiased clinic that says these are doing what the commercial states.
i will ask you personally and specifically-how can the pads draw out the correct amount of whatever metal they claim that it removes and not take all of it? what of the metals your body does need? also, how can anybody study one of these pads and make the claim that they remove cellulite? how could they possibly know, if they do work, that they removed fat from your thighs and not from,say, your foot, where the pad is located?
very specific questions, not do you feel better, but how do they do this?
I just read this whole dang thing. I really really really wanted some straight up answers/proof for either way. I was hoping I’d find something like this: “these pads don’t work, because (well by the stars in heaven, here’s a REAL LIVE LINK to) a study analyzed them before and after, and found no difference, other than water” OR “these pads absolutely work, because here’s a HOLYCOWALINK to a study that analyzed people’s before and after levels of mercury, asbestos and fat and whatever else and it’s all gone!” maybe I missed it, but I’m not seeing any links that support EITHER opinion. I did however, see tons of links to “if you believe this you’re a sucka” I’m hoping someone has maybe even something along the lines of the footbath link. whatever, I guess I’ll just have to keep looking or hope for it on mythbusters
wrote that at 11:24CST on Feb 26, 2008
totally off topic, but is it just me or does this feel eerily similar to an argument about religion?
Jessica,
Did you miss this link?
The truth is that you won’t find a study about this topic. Real scientists would reject it because there is no plausible way that these things work. That’s one of the requirements of scientific study. You have to have a reasonable hypothesis to study. There are so many worthwhile things to study that could be true, scientists don’t have any interest in looking at fake things. It’s the same reason real scientists don’t spend much time searching for Big Foot or the Loch Ness monster.
The burden of proof is on the people who say it works. Scientists do not own the scientific method. Anyone can follow it and come up with answers to any question. If you can’t prove something works, then it’s reasonable to disbelieve it. No proof is necessary. Until someone can show that they work, they don’t.
This is different than a religious debate in that you can get an answer. While you could never prove that God exists or doesn’t, you can prove that these footpads work. No one has done that therefore, the reasonable assumption is that they don’t.
This has been my entertainment for the day. Thank you. (02/27/08 – 2:20pm Central)
thebeaurybrains,
yeah, I saw the footbath link, I probably wasn’t clear but I meant to say that I wanted to see if anyone found anything that had research or explanations like the footbath link did.
It just seems to me that if there’s so many people who believe so strongly about these that they would set off to prove it instead of “because I said so”
and I was just poking fun about this topic sounding like a religious argument… there’s a bunch of quotes that word for word could be used in that argument if you took it out of context, it was just funny.
Anyway, I was given them to try, and hey, free is free, so why not… it’s not like I’m doing anything else while I’m sleeping… I’ve already prettymuch made up my mind about them being completely bogus, but maybe I’ll get a good placebo effect out of it!
2-27-08, 2:48pm cst
jessica: the fact that you can’t find anything is the whole point. even though the ads claim to have been scietifically proven to work, they offer nothing of the eveidence. the names of the clinic have not been given. the full results of the trial are nowhere to be found. the logical conclusion is that no tests were performed and no proof given. all somebody would have to do to prove these work is have a lab test them. very simple process, but those who use them and say they work won’t do this. they know they will be proven false and nobody wants to seem foolish for buying this crap.
as for free is free, how do you know there isn’t something harmful in these pads? if what some of these people say is correct, and just using a spoonfull of water gives you the same effect as wearing them, how can you be sure that what is causing the reaction won’t hurt you in the end. i for one want proof that something works before i will put in or on my body.
Think about this… whiplash with severe muscle spasms, over twenty trigger points developing symetrically just in your back muscles, not including the rest of your body. Fibromyalgia only has 18 points. I have six trigger points in the occipital region of my head (back of head)I listened to all the scientific reasons for every therapy recommended. I live with misery on a continual basis. I have tried it all. For example: anti-depressants, epidurals, trigger point injections, warm water therapy, accupuncture, chiropractic practices, massage, biofeedback, pain killers…the list goes on. Do you really think I care about scientific proof? First night, pads were black with crystalized rocks and a clear oozing slime. Husband’s were dry and a small black dot. I have zero metabolism and haven’t perspired for umpteen years. His feet always perspire. I tried one on my stomach below the navel the second day. A small black ring dry to touch after eight hours. Second nite, same results on feet pads in morning. Third day, placed one over belly button and one just above the first lumbar disc in my back. After eight hours, the black residue and carmelized crystals not only covered the pad but extended about an inch past. The belly button was filled with the black gunk and the clear slime. I do not doubt one bit the impurities are being drawn out much the same as a splinter or pus are removed from the skin on under a toe nail. I cannot say what these substances are. It would be great if a lab wanted to do a study to either prove or disprove your logic. My urine has always been clear, but the first two incidents on both days it was cloudy with a lot of unknown particles. After that it was clear. If these herbs, bamboo vinegar, and ground tourmaline do nothing but improve over all body functioning from the ions, I really don’t care. I slept eight hours for the first time in fourteen years. If you are comfortable calling it bunk, so be it. I will continue with trial and error because that is my only choice. It is actually the cheapest thing I have tried. I am sick of pills that have effects a thousand times worse than being duped and my feet haven’t been swollen for two days.
first of all Fibromyalgia smiply means “sore muscles” ther is no known cause. if you are not willing to check with a lab to see if these are hurting you or not, that is your business. i am an amputee and have suffered from a multitude of problems because of it. i am not willing to try an unproved product simply because somebody else “felt great” after using it.
try the water thing, see if it does anything then write back
My dad was in a bus accident that left him with massive amounts of scar tissue and several crushed vertebrae. The pain and mobility problems are only getting worse as he gets older. He’s tried acupuncture several times over the years–he’s tried a lot of things to stop the nigh-constant pain–with different practitioners with the same result: no reduction in pain, and he feels ridiculous paying someone to stick him with needles when he’s sure “people who know [him] personally would do it for free.”
My anecdotal evidence is no better than Star’s, but it illustrates two points. (At least, I think it does; it’s now 4 a.m., but I had to read this whole thing.)
1. For every person who swears by a treatment, there’s usually someone for whom it didn’t work. The successful ones just tend to be louder.
2. You can’t have any sort of sound study with only one test subject! The ideal subject pool would be everyone on Earth who ever lived or will live. You need to be able to demonstrate that a procedure/pill/gizmo works on many people, many times over. Otherwise, your “result” may be due to an unaccounted-for trait of your subject. They cover this in STATS 100, but it’s also common sense.
On the placebo effect: I guess if all you’re looking for is change in perception (i.e., perceived pain relief), then the placebo effect is an end unto itself. Actually, it’s friggin’ fantastic. I would love to be able to think myself out of pain. However, if you’re looking for a way to rectify the underlying cause of the pain, and prevent it from happening again, placebos don’t cut it. Personally, I’ll use a treatment that has scientifically tested evidence to support it. Maybe that’s because I have a crush on the Scientific Method. P.S., to whomever said they “feel” that skin can filter toxins: You can feel or believe whatever you want… Just because I “feel” my lungs really can filter water doesn’t mean I won’t drown.
Regarding the Eastern v. Western spat: First off, I don’t like those terms, but I get what they are referring to. Someone mentioned that “Western” medicine has a history of dubious involvement with corporate interests, monopolistic strangleholds and socialized control over available medical care. I don’t disagree with that statement; I just want to know what makes “Eastern” medicine so saintly, and why that would make their claims any more effective. You can be “good,” so to speak, and still wrong.
On stonewalling: Like many alternative medicine advocates, I take issue with the state of the American health care system. Realize, though, that medical research (the real kind, not Kinoki’s) and commercial health care, while obviously linked, are not the same thing. I can’t say whether the AMA, Pfizer, and Ronald McDonald have a secret cartel whose only goal is to keep Americans unhealthy or not. Scientific research, though, is by its very nature as unbiased as possible. (Yes, I’m aware that’s not always 100% possible, but we try.) When evidence against your pet treatment mounts, it’s easier to say the man is keeping you down than to provide logical, scientific rebuttal.
AND NOW FOR THE FOOT PADS: I’ve finished school for now (BS in Integrative Biology), so I have some extra time on my hands. I also still have access to a lab or two. I’m willing to buy and test some of these foolish things, but I want participants in this thread to help me design the study. I already know they don’t work, but it can’t hurt to have a site that shows why. After all, you can’t fault people for being curious, or for not knowing much about human physiology; I don’t know much about car engines, but I’d rather be taught than mocked next time I need repairs. If there’s enough interest in this, I’ll set up a blog.
Good night.
reply to curious: fibromyalgia is not just sore muscle. When a muscle is contracted in the pain mode for an extended length of time, lactic acid forms a hard spot. When multiple muscles have devoloped these nodes, pain pressure on one will reflect pain to the others. That is why they are called pressure points or Trigger points. When people have whiplash, for a split second the neuro center of the brain sends out a signal that shuts down all the muscles into the pain mode
except the heart. The protection of the heart takes precedence. When danger passes, another signal is released to relax the muscle. It is said 20% of the people involved with whiplash do not get this second signal for whatever reason. It cannot be duplicated. Hence, people like me.
I did put water on the pads. There was a difference between RO water and regular tap. I wrapped in saran wrap to see if this altered the reaction. It did not. Yes the powder is brown. It is the other chemical reactions on the foot pads that I would be interested in knowing what they are. There are approximately four different substances on my foot pads compared to the test ones and my husband’s. His is different than the test pad but not much.
Even if it is just drawing body salts out there are probably other impurities included. The census here seems to be concentrating on heavy metals. I don’t know what chemical, mineral, metal, or what substance or condition put me in the 20% category for this muscle condition. I do know that I am having some physical results that I have not had with vitamins, exercize, yoga, biofeedback, whatever. I am in sales. There are at least two slants to every story and it is one’s responsibility to determine the lesser of evils. Until I see a destructive pattern, I will continue to experiment with these pads.
If the skin is not permeable then, How does medicine patches work ? Does sweating not help remove toxins from the body? Why do people sit in steam rooms? I do not think it is a magic shot that would work in a few days but I do think that over time it could help.
cece:i know that fibromyalgia is not “just” sore muscles. my point was that it is not known what causes it. both my mother and my aunt suffer from it, so i am not mocking the pain, just telling that it is not known why.
as for the “other” chemical reactions bit, how can you say that one part of their claim is false and then say the rest “might” work. why place youself in harms way just to see if they might do the job. these pads make many claims that just can’t be true.
susan: nobody said the skin isn’t permeable. only that you can not filter toxins through it.
curses, you wrote a *terrific* message, and i enjoyed the snot out of it!
One comment: you said “I would love to be able to think myself out of pain.” Actually, you can, though it’s tough, and takes a lot of practice. I suffer from cluster headaches, which come in bunches and are as painful as kidney stones. Feels as if I have a railroad spike piercing my skull through my eye. The medicine for them is dangerous and I can only take twelve pills a week for them; unfortunately, when I get them, I get about twelve headaches in three days, so I’m pretty screwed. Here’s where the “thinking myself out of pain” comes in: I imagine that someone (usually a big, muscular, handsome man) is slooooowly pulling the spike from my eye. I also imagine that another handsome man is at the same time applying ice to my eye.
It works to a degree; with that type of pain, it can be hard to concentrate (my mind keeps going back to “Ow ow ouchie ow ow!”), but if I keep at it, I can shorten the length of the clusters. I’ve used visualization for other types of pain with greater success (say, back strains, a pulled tooth, etc).
It doesn’t provide LONG-TERM relief, and I’ll bet for someone with, say, bone cancer, it’d provide only short bouts of relief, but relief is relief, and if you can get good at it, you can string the short periods together.
Please don’t get me wrong; I’m not one of the nutbags saying “Foot pads and all the other scam stuff are great!” as I’m not; I’m merely pointing out that folks *can* use their brains in regard to pain relief and it’s nothing weird.
If you *do* test your foot pads, I’ll be the first to come look and laugh!
Susan: How many times does someone here hafta say “No one here said skin’s impermeable” before it’ll sink in?
Lipstick Face-
I enjoyed your comments, too!
Even if a bogus treatment provides relief through the placebo effect, I’d much rather use your method. It shows you have tremendous will power and you save money on useless junk.
To curious:
I do not say that their claim is false regarding heavy metals. I did not purchase them for that reason. I have taken prescribed drugs and pain injections for 13 years. I could have anything in my system. What I do know is more chemicals ingested is not the answer, particularly synthetic ones. I do not feel these patches are riskier than miracle drugs or OTC pain medicine. I use heat, exercise, topical creams, massage, yoga breathing skills, aromatherapy, and “yes” an occasional tanning booth session. I vary the methods constantly. I feel better these last three days than I have in a long time. I do not intend to do it regularly any more than I do anything else.
You don’t know what causes fibromyalgia. I do know what instigated my condition. What I don’t know is why I was susceptible. The problem is that no one is doing a study on it not involving heavy use of antidepressants and seisure medications. The side effects are disturbing at best. Been there and done that. I will not go there again without pursuing reasonable homeopathic treatments. I document everything. I am interested in reversing my condition. I am focused on that. I do nothing in excess. But I will not exclude something bearing a resemblance to a mere poultice. I already have regular blood profiles done thanks to drugs. Only something adverse physically happening will alter my interest in detox pads. Negative comments from a non-user are irrelevant.
Cece, yer so funny! You don’t wanna take “risky” drugs, yet you happily use tanning booths, thus galumphing closer to skin cancer! You don’t see the irony? It’s synthetic sunshine, and you pooh-poohed synthetics in your post!
Okay…I’m trying this out for a friend’s daughter’s science project. They bought the pads and I am sending 7 to her for testing. If someone wants to take the balance of wht I have to test out and report back shoot me an email at drjonfielding@yahoo.com (not a doc but it’s a character in a book) and I’ll send you the pads.
to lipstick face:
So you are completely covered when you exit the house? Twenty minutes from a tanning bed is not exactly synthetic. The UV rays that produce the tanning provide moist heat that sooths the pain. The UV rays also help your body produce vitamin D on its own. In the winter when sunshine is scarce it has its moments. I don’t abuse it. You must be a magnet for everything negative about anything. Excesses of anything are harmful. I assume you don’t use lipstick because of that big snafu about the contaminants in it.
First, I would like to say that I was skeptical before I bought the Verseo Detox Pads. I did a little research and said what the heck. I’m a work-a-holic. I work 7 days a week 70+hrs. The first thing I noticed about the Verso Detox was how my sleeping habits changed. In the past waking up was a chore. I was constantly adding more time to the alarm clock. Since using the pads “when Im up …. I’m up!” I can’t explain the difference in sleep! Even after a night of drinking (beer), I feel so refreshed after using the pads. For that reason alone I will continue to purchase them.
Gator, a skeptical person wouldn’t have bought them in the first place.
I’ve read for over an hour but I have not heard anyone explain why they lighten in color over time. That seems pretty hard to hoax. Doing the water test doesn’t convince me because the first night I put them on, I got up in the middle of the night and my feet were perspiring. Plus, the strong odor of the original pad lasts while the lighter pads odor isn’t as strong. Again, how can they hoax that when they are individually packaged? I saved mine, tell me where I can get them tested and I will do it.
Here is an explanation right from the good folks at Skeptoid.com
“Since the Kinoki foot pads are self-adhesive, peeling them away removes the outermost layer of dead skin cells. And since they are moist, they loosen additional dead cells when left on for a while. So it’s a given that the pads will look brown when peeled from your foot, exactly like any adhesive tape would; though this effect is much less dramatic than depicted on the TV commercials, depending on how dirty your feet are. And, as they predict, this color will diminish over subsequent applications, as fewer and fewer of your dead, dirty skin cells remain. There is no magic detoxification needed to explain this effect.”
Remember, just because we can’t figure out how a trick is done, doesn’t mean that it isn’t a trick. Do you really believe a magician cuts a lady in half and restores her because you saw them do it? It’s a trick. So are these pads.
Okay, and who is this “expert” at skeptoid? That is a really flimsy answer. I don’t know about anybody else, but if some dead skin comes off my feet (say when I’m using a pumice stone), it is not brown, not even close. In fact it is not much different from my skin color, maybe a little on the gray side. Maybe that person doesn’t wash his feet! It seems like the only thing the skeptics can come up with is sending us to this website where God knows who is writing the first thing that comes to their minds. And besides , who came up with the idea that the detox pads will remain bogus until proved otherwise? You guys can’t prove that it is bogus either. One of you just said that you can’t figure out the “trick”. That doesn’t sound very scientific. If this was so clearly a case of fraudulent claims and people falling for it, you would have an easy clear-cut scientific answer for us. So I figure there really is truth to the fact that the pads work or you guys aren’t as smart as you think.
Now that the discussion has turned back to the pads themselves, I’d like to repeat my offer to test them. The only thing I ask is for people in this thread–pro, con, and undecided–to help me design the assays. That way, no matter what the results, neither side can cry bias. Is anyone game?
I am, what can we do? Count me in.
The Beauty Brains put no faith in experts. No one holds a monopoly on the truth. However, someone asked for a possible explanation and Skeptoid provides a nice one. That’s not to say it is THE explanation but it is a reasonable, testable hypothesis. It doesn’t matter WHO writes Skeptoid (or this blog for that matter) but what matters is their hypothesis.
Who are you to say it’s a “flimsy answer”? Do you know anything about protein chemistry and all the possible reactions that could result in a color change? Ad hominem attacks do not help support an argument.
When skin comes off your feet with a pumice stone, it is not chemically reacting with anything. It is just physically being removed. With these foot pads, there is a chemical reaction, thus the reason the pad turns brown.
The idea that foot pads are bogus until proven otherwise stems from the Scientific Method that was first known suggested by Ibn al-Haytham (Alhacen, 965–1039.
You first make a hypothesis like “footpads remove toxins.” Then you assume your hypothesis is false and test to see whether it is or not. Only when you’ve run every test you can think of to show your your original hypothesis is false, can you say it might be true. But still, you never know for certain whether it’s true.
We don’t even know that the theory of Gravity is true. It’s just that we’ve never been able to find any evidence that it’s false. But once someone finds 1 test to show it’s false, we’ll throw out the theory for some other better explanation. That’s how science works.
If you start with the assumption that something is true, you can never prove that it’s false.
Curses:
I’m in too. As soon as I get those pads and try them I will send you one.
Left Brain:
Although I still hold to my opinions about the foot pads, I see your point as to why you, scientifically thinking, choose to consider it false until it is proven true.
curses:
I have commented on my experience with the foot pads. You will need to survey test subjects on vitamin, mineral, and drug use and length of time used. (prescribed or otherwise)Mine were prescribed. I consumed them for fourteen years- painkillers, antidepressants etc.You also need to study the properties of the herb and mineral content of the pads. Tourmaline and bamboo wood vinegar are the largest concentration. Read about those properties. While you are at it, read about the skin, largest human organ. It has the exact same functions as our lungs. The results are not just about the pad turning brown. There were at least four types of substances on and around my pads. It acts as a poultice and an ionizer. The residue extended beyond the adhesive/ gauze pad. Good luck, maybe you will learn something.
I can see both arguments. There are those who take the scientific approach and those who take the maybe-we-don’t-know-everything approach. Certainly I have heard of the subconscious mind performing tasks which were scientifically unexplainable. The fact is, all here are curious and are questioning… We wouldn’t be reading otherwise.
I am currently trying the pads. The discoloration is brown and it has been for three days. I have had no real “breakthrough” happenings. I understand that the sweat glands in the foot mixed with whatever is in the pads is going to turn the pads into a brown/black/gray color.
Here’s what I don’t understand. If the color lightens up (hasn’t happened yet), how is that possible if it is not drawing something out? I read the other post that explained that the adhesive material would take away skin, hence, the lighter color; but, the pads you put on are not adhesive. The material around the pads is. In no way are the pads adhesive. Also, your given directions to alternate feet.
I have read that because of the heat and moisture mixed with the vinegar in the pads = brown/gray/black. Why would they lighten? One’s foot would not stop sweating…One’s foot would not stop creating heat…The “secret” in the pads are not changing…The pad’s are not adhesive…
Cece-
Your comments on screening subjects are appreciated. However, I’d like to point out that the skin and lungs do not function the same way. While there are some creatures that can respirate across their skin/surface membrane, Homo sapiens is not among them. WebMD and Wikipedia have good primers on lung and skin functions; I’d also recommend one of my favorite textbooks: Campbell and Reece’s “Biology.” It also touches on the evolution of skin and lungs and looks into comparative anatomy.
summersailin,
I would disagree with your characterization as groups that believe in the scientific approach and the “maybe-we-don’t-know-everything” approach. Scientists do not think they know everything. In fact, good scientists know that most of what they “know” is wrong. Science is all about looking for answers to things we do not know.
Just because something is currently scientifically unexplainable doesn’t mean there isn’t or won’t be an explanation eventually.
Your assumption that because the pads change color there must be something being drawn out of the body is not right. It could simply be a chemical reaction with the protein on the surface of your feet.
But the fact that we can’t fully explain a magic trick, doesn’t mean it isn’t a trick.
thebeautybrains,
Obviously I was going to the extreme when I gave my examples of scientific approach v. “holistic”.
Back to the “magic trick”… no variables are changing. Scientifically explain to me why the colors lighten/change. The proteins on the surface of the feet??? Does the amount of proteins on a foot lessen over time? What kind of “magic trick” explains this?
Yes, exactly. I think what summersailin is trying to say (not that it wasn’t said clearly enough already) is that if this is some kind of “magic trick”, how on earth can they make the pads lessen in color with use? I understand it is believed around here that it is a chemical reaction that makes the color change. That means they would have to vary each and every pad with different chemicals to get a different color. They would also have to tell the customer that there was a certain order in which to use them so that they can go on fooling us. I think the fact that NOBODY can explain this shows that there must be something to them.
And also, I’m glad summersailin brought up an interesting point…the adhesives are not on the pad themselves, but around them. So this whole theory about the chemical reactions with the adhesives doesn’t pan out.
I don’t know what you mean by “holistic”.
The fact that NOBODY can explain the color change doesn’t automatically mean the footpads work. Since I haven’t seen the footpads change color (and summersailin says hers are not changing colors) I can only guess what could be happening.
Look, I saw David Copperfield do a trick where he flies in the air. I can’t really explain how he did it. NOBODY I saw the show with could explain how he did it. Does that mean he was really flying? I don’t think so.
I said that after using the pads for three days I did not see a difference. I did not comment on my findings since.
I am noticing a lighter color, not significantly lighter, but lighter nonetheless. I also noticed upon waking this morning that the pad was not as “gooey”. The adhesive part of the pad was harder to get off because the amount of moisture was less.
There have been individuals who claim to have their pads eventually colorless and, once again, I am asking you to scientifically explain this “magic trick” to me.
Correction…the adhesive part around the pad.
“I am asking you to scientifically explain this ‘magic trick’ to me.”
Please read my previous comments.
Given the scant evidence presented, I can’t explain the magic trick to you. I could only offer guesses which may or may not be correct. But my inability to tell you what’s going on based on limited evidence, doesn’t mean the explanation of body detoxification is true.
For it to be detoxification you’d have to first demonstrate that you had toxins in your body that needed removing. This would be shown through a blood test. Then you’d have to show that said toxins react with the footpads and cause them to change color. You’d have to do another blood test to show you have less toxins in your body after using them than before…etc. etc.
To merely say it turned brown & then less brown over time is hardly proof of detoxification.
I am only in the beginning stages of using the pads; however, any changes in the pads should warrant a question in your mind.
A change in the pads means something is happening. Is is detox? How could you or I know? I do know that Cece said, “There were at least four types of substances on and around my pads. It acts as a poultice and an ionizer. The residue extended beyond the adhesive/ gauze pad..” and that Maureen claims to have seen a difference in color…
Aren’t you curious as to what or how?
I have been so interested in learning more about the ingredients in the foot pads and so I researched the ingredients last night and although I am no expert, I think the ingredient Bamboo vinegar, tourmaline and Chitin working together may explain a lot. I want to believe these foot pads work but before I bought more, I wanted to investigate some more. I was looking up these ingredients but would not go to any site that was selling any products at all. I learned a lot about this ingredient tourmaline. Here are some excerpts from the sites:
It is a silicate mineral and has pyroelectricity. It has been known that the pyroelectricity allows tourmaline to have effects including absorbing and fixing heavy metal ions and absorbing malodorous composition particles. Through a variety of experiments, the inventors found that mixing bamboo charcoal powder and tourmaline powder can give synergism in which the above-mentioned effects of each powder are enhanced. The inventors also found that a far infrared radiation effect of tourmaline can keep food from perishing and thereby the composition according to the present invention can be effectively used in particular for food preservation.
In order to obtain a satisfactory synergism, the mixing ratio of bamboo charcoal and tourmaline powders is preferably (1:0.2) to (1:5), more preferably (1:0.4) to (1:1.2) and further preferably (1:0.5) to (1:1). However, it is not limited thereto because it may be varied according to the application of the obtained composition.
The bamboo charcoal-mixed composition according to the present invention (on the site I was looking at below but wasn’t talking about the detox foot pads at all) is preferably further include tannic acid, bamboo vinegar, chitosan, conker extract and/or the like, according to the application of the composition.
It is used for a number of tasks, including, but not limited to:
-An antibacterial agent in agriculture
-A deodorant applied to socks, shoes, etc. (Its slightly acidic nature makes it toxic to bacteria.)
-Fertilizer for crops
-An insect repellent (it has a smoky, sharp, vinegary smell)
-Food and drink processing (again taking advantage of its anti-bacterial properties)
-Cosmetics (acetic acid is known to soften skin)
-Water purification in sewage treatment
-Various herbal remedies for gout and sore throats.
Anyway, I think this mixture has pretty powerful ingredients and we should not underestimate it. I didn’t say it completely explains whether this is a hoax or not but it shed light to me that it is possible scientifically that these products are powerful working together. Yet they are still natural ingredients. Your thoughts?
http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/6509294-description.html
cocoa jo, you’re getting your “data” from a patent application which is filled with mumbo jumbo. Any fool can file a patent application and it’ll be granted!. Try looking somewhere where someone’s NOT trying to make a buck off you. Howzabout starting with, say, Wikipedia?
Vinegar
Tourmaline
Chitin
I need money to get a tooth implant; you’re making me think I oughtta go build a site to sell some foolish nonsense by writing some scientific malarkey because apparently, I can fool a lotta the people a lotta the time. Folks will apparently say that whatever damn fool thing I invent will make them feel better, no matter what the nay-sayers say!
I think it is going to be very hard to prove if this works or not (between this group of people at least). Not because I believe it is done through magic tricks or anything. But let’s face it–the scientific community on this board will forever be narrow minded on this subject until they get proof. And they are positive nobody has done testing on their very on foot pads because they are scared that the results will be negative. But I think the real problem is: Who wants to pay all of this money for blood tests and lab tests to prove to anybody what we believe works. That could get expensive, not to mention who has time for it all. Scratch that…if we have time to write on here then I guess we have time for other things. I keep telling myself to not bother with this subject anymore because we are all at a crossroads with it, but I keep on getting sucked back in from sheer curiosity.
I don’t think this is a waste of time or that anyone is necessarily narrow minded. I am a bit baffled as to why when someone mentions the ingredients or questions why a reaction would occur they are merely given the “I’ve seen David Copperfield” response or show me proof.
I have never claimed to be a scientist nor have I set up a site claiming such. I do know that when a person is given two packages, one with an adhesive strip and one with a pad claiming to rid the body of toxins and they apply one side of the pad to the adhesive (so that there is an inch of adhesive surrounding it) and then apply it to a foot (alternating feet every night for 6 – 8 hours), the results (regardless of what they are) should not change.
It is rather troubling when it goes against everything taught; however, whether it means getting the books back out or doing some research to teach us “lowly beings” why something occurs then that is what the scientists should do. If I wanted to understand David Copperfield and his magic I would probably ask an expert in magic tricks. If I ask if proteins in the feet lessen in time I should think an expert in that field would know and give me that answer.
When is it ever wrong to question? Is it that the ingredients used are not commonly researched by scientists? Are scientists 100 percent certain the exact effects those ingredients have in the biochemistry of the human body? If you are not 100% certain, then shouldn’t you be researching that instead of paralleling uncertainties with magic?
Summersailin,
I don’t get it, who brought up David Copperfield as related to ingredients? Ingredients were only mentioned in the comments before.
It is not correct that it “goes against everything taught.” There are simple oxidation reactions between proteins and other ingredients that could explain a color change. Did you ever notice that bananas or apples change color over time? They are not absorbing toxins, they are just experiencing normal oxidative reactions. That is most likely what is going on here.
Nobody called anyone “lowly beings” and I don’t understand why you would say such a thing.
While we here at the Beauty Brains are scientists we do not know the details of every single reaction that is possible. I haven’t analyzed the foot pads so I can’t tell you exactly what is going on. But I do know a bit about biology and how the body works. The explanation of how these pads are working would require a re-writing of hundreds of years of biological study. And if indeed these pads pull out toxins from the body, that’s exactly what should happen. But until someone proves there are toxins being removed (as suggested in previous comments) it is safe to assume there is some other explanation.
It’s never wrong to question The ingredients here are researched by scientists just as much as any other ingredient. If there is something interesting about them, they get studied. If not, they are ignored. Scientists are never 100% certain about anything. It’s impossible to be 100% certain of anything. But if you are 90 – 95% certain, that’s usually good enough. There are many more interesting things to study.
Science is a system of looking at the evidence and making a guess at what is going on. The guess is based on results from previous experiments. If some new piece of information goes against a couple hundred years of scientific study, there has to be a lot of proof to support it. Citing a color change that could be achieved by a number of oxidation reactions is not nearly the proof required.
Science can’t explain everything but it explains a lot. It’s a system of learning that has improved humanity’s existence in immeasurable ways. Skepticism is critical to making the system work.
Some have called it narrow minded. But they just don’t understand what science is all about. Scientists will accept anything if it can be proven. Why is requiring proof bad?
Glad to see the curiosity building. I investigated the properties of the ingredients listed on several brands of detox foot pads. As I said before, I purchased enough to experiment with besides use on my person. Both myself and my spouse used them the first three nights. I was on heavy medications for over fourteen years. He has been on none.
I had trigger point injections and epidurals for over two years before developing pedal edema. The majority of my muscular system stays shortened in the pain mode except under high temperature. (91 degrees) Hence my slow metabolism aggravated further by age.If you take the time to read the properties used in these pads, it helps explain the chemical responses being different from person to person. Tourmaline reacts with temperature and with stress both. (It is piezoelectric and pyroelectric).All five meridians run through the bottom of the foot area which responds to the ions.
The bamboo vinegar has chemical binding properties. We are what we consume. It does not surprise me that results are different with everyone. The clear gunk, the black tarry gunk, the crystalized formations, and the powdery krud on my pads oozed way beyond the perimeters of the pads. My husband had a quarter sized completely circular brown spot on his pads. The one common attribute was that upon waking we were energized. I mentioned that I experimented with the pads on other parts. The results were different depending on the location. Some did not change at all. I think everyone needs to go into something like this realizing the results will always vary whether person-to-person or day-to-day.
The real trick is knowing what results are beneficial and which are not. No obvious change means it is not beneficial for you. Forget it. That does not mean it is a waste for others.
A good start for reading is Tourmalin and Bamboo
Beauty-
Let’s see, the possible change in pad was first due to adhesive, magic, and protein and oxidation reactions. How is an oxidation reaction possible if no variables change and the pads are dry when put on?
We all want proof. Because you cannot give me a 90 – 95% answer on the certainty of what is going on with the pads or with how the ingredients work with the body, I don’t think you are qualified to discuss whether or not these pads do or do not work. And why has nobody commented on Cocoa Jo’s findings?
There is no point in discussing whether you feel science is (fill in the blank). Let’s just stick to the issue at hand… the pads and the ingredients.
Absorbing toxins was not one of the things listed in Cocoa Jo’s findings so I don’t see the relevance. Based on her information, it sounds like pads with these ingredients on them would make good Odor Eaters. Am I missing something.
Incidentally, tourmaline is pyroelectric when it is heated. Unless these footpads are heated the pyroelectric effect of tourmaline is immaterial. It is interesting to note that bones and tendons are also pyroelectric.
“How is an oxidation reaction possible if no variables change and the pads are dry when put on?”
Variables do change. You put the pads on your feet, your feet sweat right? So the moisture level changes. The dead skin cells on the bottom of your feet get on the pads so there is protein on the pads. There’s also DNA, natural body oils etc. that get on the pad. Without testing the pads I can’t tell you exactly what oxidation reaction is occurring. It’s just a guess that that is the most likely thing going on.
To convince me that these pads aren’t a hoax, I would need to see blood tests before and after identifying the specific toxin levels in the body and a clear reduction. This would be done versus a placebo. Next, I’d need to see an analysis of the pads to see exactly what chemicals were on the pads before and after use. These key pieces of data could make me say Maybe they’re doing something.
You can believe whatever you want. I feel like nothing I can say will convince you that these aren’t a waste of money. Is there anything? What would it take for you to believe that these things are a hoax?
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