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	<title>Comments on: Fake Hair Facts &#8211; Answers to Beauty Science Poll 27</title>
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	<link>http://thebeautybrains.com/2008/06/10/fake-hair-facts-answers-to-beauty-science-poll-27/</link>
	<description>Cosmetic chemists answer your beauty product questions!  We are a group of cosmetic scientists who understand what the chemicals used in cosmetics really do, how products are tested, and what all the advertising means.</description>
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		<title>By: Left Brain</title>
		<link>http://thebeautybrains.com/2008/06/10/fake-hair-facts-answers-to-beauty-science-poll-27/comment-page-1/#comment-33704</link>
		<dc:creator>Left Brain</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Dec 2008 12:39:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebeautybrains.com/?p=2502#comment-33704</guid>
		<description>@C - There is no scietific evidence that &quot;vegatal&quot; proteins stay on the hair shaft better than hydrolyzed animal proteins.  Please show us a scientific study if you could.  It&#039;s also not true that &quot;most manufacturers of mass products&quot; use animal proteins in their products.  Fears of mad cow disease made most mass market products remove animal derived ingredients.

The bit about making vegetal proteins stay on the hair is just wrong and not supported by any science.  Please site a source.

The pH of most hair products (Pantene included) is between 5 and 6.  It is not 7.  But even if it were, the pH of your shampoo has not been shown to have a significant effect on anything.  Please show me a study that says it does.  Once your hair gets wet with the pH 7 water in your shower, it doesn&#039;t matter what pH your shampoo was.

&quot;Pro&quot; products use silicones too.  

And while you&#039;re right, you can&#039;t make a Ferrari out of Chevy parts, that isn&#039;t what&#039;s going on with Professional products versus mass market products.  They are all using the same ingredients!  There is nothing special about professional products.  I know because I&#039;ve personally formulated both mass market and professional products, using the same ingredients.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@C &#8211; There is no scietific evidence that &#8220;vegatal&#8221; proteins stay on the hair shaft better than hydrolyzed animal proteins.  Please show us a scientific study if you could.  It&#8217;s also not true that &#8220;most manufacturers of mass products&#8221; use animal proteins in their products.  Fears of mad cow disease made most mass market products remove animal derived ingredients.</p>
<p>The bit about making vegetal proteins stay on the hair is just wrong and not supported by any science.  Please site a source.</p>
<p>The pH of most hair products (Pantene included) is between 5 and 6.  It is not 7.  But even if it were, the pH of your shampoo has not been shown to have a significant effect on anything.  Please show me a study that says it does.  Once your hair gets wet with the pH 7 water in your shower, it doesn&#8217;t matter what pH your shampoo was.</p>
<p>&#8220;Pro&#8221; products use silicones too.  </p>
<p>And while you&#8217;re right, you can&#8217;t make a Ferrari out of Chevy parts, that isn&#8217;t what&#8217;s going on with Professional products versus mass market products.  They are all using the same ingredients!  There is nothing special about professional products.  I know because I&#8217;ve personally formulated both mass market and professional products, using the same ingredients.</p>
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		<title>By: C</title>
		<link>http://thebeautybrains.com/2008/06/10/fake-hair-facts-answers-to-beauty-science-poll-27/comment-page-1/#comment-33689</link>
		<dc:creator>C</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Nov 2008 17:43:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebeautybrains.com/?p=2502#comment-33689</guid>
		<description>Left Brain, I do agree with some of the logic that you base your positions on. However, I too work in the industry and for one of the brands of largest manufacturer out there. There are some very real points of difference in pro products and mass products. Although ingredients in most cases are similar...they are not all the same. For instance, Wella, Redken, TIGI to name three all use protein in their shampoo&#039;s and conditioners...not all proteins are the same, there are vegetal proteins made from soy or wheat and animal proteins. Most major manufacturers of Pro products use the hydrolyzed vegetal proteins, yet some mass products still use the protein from animals usually from the fat of those animals used for slaughter.

In order for vegetal proteins to actually stay on the hair shaft, then other ingredients such as taurine or arginine found in Redken as part of their interbond conditioning technology or sugar acetate found in Sexy Hair products, must be included and in the correct portions. In Most cases these ingredients are patented by pro companies, and not used in mass products.

Not too mention the fact that the majority of pro products are found to be more in the natural pH range of hair (3.5-5.5pH) where as most mass products are in a much higher range, sometimes as high as laundry detergent which is a 10.5pH. Mass products like Pantene who claim their products are pH balanced...well that is true...however, &quot;pH balanced&quot; does not mean balanced to the pH of hair. They come in at a 7pH which is neutral on the pH scale and is neither acidic nor alkaline. Hair is acidic 3.5-5.5pH range so those mass products are typically more drying to the hair even those that are &quot;pH balanced&quot;. If someone has extremely lightened hair their hair will be very porous and very alkaline or dry. Using a &quot;pH balanced&quot; product like Pantene which is at a 7pH won&#039;t bring that hair back closer to a more natural acidic state. So mass products use more silicones and silicates to coat the hair for a cosmetic &quot;masking&quot; effect rather patented ingredients in pro products that are more lasting internal effect.

Like I said I understand your logic and reasoning...but by that same logic...You can&#039;t make a Ferrari out of Chevy parts...there are significant differences in pro and mass products.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Left Brain, I do agree with some of the logic that you base your positions on. However, I too work in the industry and for one of the brands of largest manufacturer out there. There are some very real points of difference in pro products and mass products. Although ingredients in most cases are similar&#8230;they are not all the same. For instance, Wella, Redken, TIGI to name three all use protein in their shampoo&#8217;s and conditioners&#8230;not all proteins are the same, there are vegetal proteins made from soy or wheat and animal proteins. Most major manufacturers of Pro products use the hydrolyzed vegetal proteins, yet some mass products still use the protein from animals usually from the fat of those animals used for slaughter.</p>
<p>In order for vegetal proteins to actually stay on the hair shaft, then other ingredients such as taurine or arginine found in Redken as part of their interbond conditioning technology or sugar acetate found in Sexy Hair products, must be included and in the correct portions. In Most cases these ingredients are patented by pro companies, and not used in mass products.</p>
<p>Not too mention the fact that the majority of pro products are found to be more in the natural pH range of hair (3.5-5.5pH) where as most mass products are in a much higher range, sometimes as high as laundry detergent which is a 10.5pH. Mass products like Pantene who claim their products are pH balanced&#8230;well that is true&#8230;however, &#8220;pH balanced&#8221; does not mean balanced to the pH of hair. They come in at a 7pH which is neutral on the pH scale and is neither acidic nor alkaline. Hair is acidic 3.5-5.5pH range so those mass products are typically more drying to the hair even those that are &#8220;pH balanced&#8221;. If someone has extremely lightened hair their hair will be very porous and very alkaline or dry. Using a &#8220;pH balanced&#8221; product like Pantene which is at a 7pH won&#8217;t bring that hair back closer to a more natural acidic state. So mass products use more silicones and silicates to coat the hair for a cosmetic &#8220;masking&#8221; effect rather patented ingredients in pro products that are more lasting internal effect.</p>
<p>Like I said I understand your logic and reasoning&#8230;but by that same logic&#8230;You can&#8217;t make a Ferrari out of Chevy parts&#8230;there are significant differences in pro and mass products.</p>
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		<title>By: Tavia</title>
		<link>http://thebeautybrains.com/2008/06/10/fake-hair-facts-answers-to-beauty-science-poll-27/comment-page-1/#comment-28338</link>
		<dc:creator>Tavia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Jun 2008 14:58:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebeautybrains.com/?p=2502#comment-28338</guid>
		<description>Interesting post...As for me...i have a hair loss problem, because of stress and night shifts at work, but know i&#039;ve discovered a home made hair mask that&#039;s really working. I was sick of trying all kind of products.Salon products helped but when i stopped using them ...the hair loss problem start again. For me salon products were not so great.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting post&#8230;As for me&#8230;i have a hair loss problem, because of stress and night shifts at work, but know i&#8217;ve discovered a home made hair mask that&#8217;s really working. I was sick of trying all kind of products.Salon products helped but when i stopped using them &#8230;the hair loss problem start again. For me salon products were not so great.</p>
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		<title>By: Left Brain</title>
		<link>http://thebeautybrains.com/2008/06/10/fake-hair-facts-answers-to-beauty-science-poll-27/comment-page-1/#comment-28267</link>
		<dc:creator>Left Brain</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jun 2008 13:41:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebeautybrains.com/?p=2502#comment-28267</guid>
		<description>@R - Your personal experience aside, there is no scientific evidence that salon brands work better.  In fact, store brands are more likely to work better because they were developed by companies with scientists &amp; big research budgets.  Salon brands typically do not have scientists and they farm their formulating work out to contract manufacturers.  These companies will produce stock formulas for anyone who wants them.  

@ Lauren - It is a myth that salon brands use &quot;higher quality&quot; ingredients.  I work in the industry and know what chemicals are available to the manufacturers of both salon and store brand products.  There is not a different set of raw material suppliers.  There are not premium grade raw materials for the main ingredients like surfactants.

I agree that the quality of Fekkai formulas will likely improve now that they are owned by a big company.  On the other hand, P&amp;G may also reformulate to make the formulas more appealing to the mass market like they did when they acquired Herbalessences and switched all the formulas over to the Pantene formulas (look at the ingredient lists).

If you had any evidence that essential oils in shampoos or conditioners have any impact on performance, I&#039;d love to see it.  Those ingredients are put in formulas at tiny levels so they can call them out on the labels &amp; support the story.  They don&#039;t actually do anything in reality.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@R &#8211; Your personal experience aside, there is no scientific evidence that salon brands work better.  In fact, store brands are more likely to work better because they were developed by companies with scientists &amp; big research budgets.  Salon brands typically do not have scientists and they farm their formulating work out to contract manufacturers.  These companies will produce stock formulas for anyone who wants them.  </p>
<p>@ Lauren &#8211; It is a myth that salon brands use &#8220;higher quality&#8221; ingredients.  I work in the industry and know what chemicals are available to the manufacturers of both salon and store brand products.  There is not a different set of raw material suppliers.  There are not premium grade raw materials for the main ingredients like surfactants.</p>
<p>I agree that the quality of Fekkai formulas will likely improve now that they are owned by a big company.  On the other hand, P&amp;G may also reformulate to make the formulas more appealing to the mass market like they did when they acquired Herbalessences and switched all the formulas over to the Pantene formulas (look at the ingredient lists).</p>
<p>If you had any evidence that essential oils in shampoos or conditioners have any impact on performance, I&#8217;d love to see it.  Those ingredients are put in formulas at tiny levels so they can call them out on the labels &amp; support the story.  They don&#8217;t actually do anything in reality.</p>
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		<title>By: Lauren</title>
		<link>http://thebeautybrains.com/2008/06/10/fake-hair-facts-answers-to-beauty-science-poll-27/comment-page-1/#comment-28266</link>
		<dc:creator>Lauren</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jun 2008 13:13:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebeautybrains.com/?p=2502#comment-28266</guid>
		<description>P&amp;G only just recently purchased Fekkai (like less than two months ago).  You should be careful with this.  It may be true that mass and salon brands use some of the same ingredients, but the quality of those ingredients and the types of essential oils used do vary--and those variences = money.  Don&#039;t think for a minute that Fekkai&#039;s quality will change--it will only get better with a huge company funding it and making it easier to fund research and expensive formulas.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>P&amp;G only just recently purchased Fekkai (like less than two months ago).  You should be careful with this.  It may be true that mass and salon brands use some of the same ingredients, but the quality of those ingredients and the types of essential oils used do vary&#8211;and those variences = money.  Don&#8217;t think for a minute that Fekkai&#8217;s quality will change&#8211;it will only get better with a huge company funding it and making it easier to fund research and expensive formulas.</p>
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