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	<title>Comments on: Dove Hair and Skin Care: Pretty Persuasion</title>
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	<link>http://thebeautybrains.com/2008/08/08/dove-hair-and-skin-care-pretty-persuasion/</link>
	<description>Cosmetic chemists answer your beauty product questions!  We are a group of cosmetic scientists who understand what the chemicals used in cosmetics really do, how products are tested, and what all the advertising means.</description>
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		<title>By: Arlene</title>
		<link>http://thebeautybrains.com/2008/08/08/dove-hair-and-skin-care-pretty-persuasion/comment-page-1/#comment-30741</link>
		<dc:creator>Arlene</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Sep 2008 04:48:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebeautybrains.com/?p=2632#comment-30741</guid>
		<description>This is and AD for Dove - just plain women  - huh-  your average everyday woman- if these women were just plain everyday women- with no extra make-up artist or hair stylist on duty to make their magic come alive on the page- how many women would take another look at Dove and think Gosh if this product can do this for her,maybe it will do the same for me-- very few= the purpose of the ad and the extra touch-ups that was- needed to improve the  looks of these women, was to sell their products. Dove is NO different than any other company trying to sell products.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is and AD for Dove &#8211; just plain women  &#8211; huh-  your average everyday woman- if these women were just plain everyday women- with no extra make-up artist or hair stylist on duty to make their magic come alive on the page- how many women would take another look at Dove and think Gosh if this product can do this for her,maybe it will do the same for me&#8211; very few= the purpose of the ad and the extra touch-ups that was- needed to improve the  looks of these women, was to sell their products. Dove is NO different than any other company trying to sell products.</p>
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		<title>By: FL</title>
		<link>http://thebeautybrains.com/2008/08/08/dove-hair-and-skin-care-pretty-persuasion/comment-page-1/#comment-30482</link>
		<dc:creator>FL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Aug 2008 20:52:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebeautybrains.com/?p=2632#comment-30482</guid>
		<description>It sounds like Dangin messed up and said a lot more than he was supposed to about how much the photos were altered.  And now he and Dove are doing a lot of backpeddling. 

In the original New Yorker article, he talks about what a challenge it was to make the models look attractive.  Now he&#039;s saying that all he did was remove dust and do color correction?

The only thing that surprises me is that
anyone was naive enough to believe that there never had been any photoshopping in the first place.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It sounds like Dangin messed up and said a lot more than he was supposed to about how much the photos were altered.  And now he and Dove are doing a lot of backpeddling. </p>
<p>In the original New Yorker article, he talks about what a challenge it was to make the models look attractive.  Now he&#8217;s saying that all he did was remove dust and do color correction?</p>
<p>The only thing that surprises me is that<br />
anyone was naive enough to believe that there never had been any photoshopping in the first place.</p>
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		<title>By: scatterbrain</title>
		<link>http://thebeautybrains.com/2008/08/08/dove-hair-and-skin-care-pretty-persuasion/comment-page-1/#comment-30130</link>
		<dc:creator>scatterbrain</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Aug 2008 20:50:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebeautybrains.com/?p=2632#comment-30130</guid>
		<description>FYI, the following is Dove&#039;s statement regarding the airbrushing controversy.  I&#039;m amazed to be honest that it was controversy at all.  The entire brouhaha was perpetrated by a brief statement by Dangin in a much broader article featured in the New Yorker.  Anyway, for those of you who feel I didn&#039;t do my homework, here&#039;s Dove&#039;s statement:

Statement from Dove about The New Yorker Article

9 May 2008, 4:45pm

Dove’s mission is to make more women feel beautiful every day by widening the definition of beauty and inspiring them to take great care of themselves. Dove strives to portray women by accurately depicting their shape, size, skin color and age.

The “real women” ad referenced in recent media coverage was created and produced entirely by Ogilvy, the Dove brand’s advertising agency, from start to finish and the women’s bodies were not digitally altered.

Pascal Dangin worked with photographer Annie Leibovitz (Ogilvy has never employed Mr. Dangin on the Dove Campaign for Real Beauty), who did the photography for the launch of the Dove ProAge campaign, a new campaign within the Campaign for Real Beauty. There was an understanding between Dove and Ms. Leibovitz that the photos would not be retouched - the only actions taken were the removal of dust from the film and minor color correction.

“Let’s be perfectly clear - Pascal does all kinds of work - but he is primarily a printer - and only does retouching when asked to. The idea for Dove was very clear at the beginning. There was to be NO retouching and there was not,” confirmed Annie Leibovitz, commenting on the ProAgecampaign.

Mr. Dangin responded, “The recent article published by The New Yorker incorrectly implies that I retouched the images in connection with the Dove “real women” ad. I only worked on the Dove ProAge campaign taken by Annie Leibovitz and was directed only to remove dust and do color correction - both the integrity of the photographs and the women’s natural beauty were maintained.”</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>FYI, the following is Dove&#8217;s statement regarding the airbrushing controversy.  I&#8217;m amazed to be honest that it was controversy at all.  The entire brouhaha was perpetrated by a brief statement by Dangin in a much broader article featured in the New Yorker.  Anyway, for those of you who feel I didn&#8217;t do my homework, here&#8217;s Dove&#8217;s statement:</p>
<p>Statement from Dove about The New Yorker Article</p>
<p>9 May 2008, 4:45pm</p>
<p>Dove’s mission is to make more women feel beautiful every day by widening the definition of beauty and inspiring them to take great care of themselves. Dove strives to portray women by accurately depicting their shape, size, skin color and age.</p>
<p>The “real women” ad referenced in recent media coverage was created and produced entirely by Ogilvy, the Dove brand’s advertising agency, from start to finish and the women’s bodies were not digitally altered.</p>
<p>Pascal Dangin worked with photographer Annie Leibovitz (Ogilvy has never employed Mr. Dangin on the Dove Campaign for Real Beauty), who did the photography for the launch of the Dove ProAge campaign, a new campaign within the Campaign for Real Beauty. There was an understanding between Dove and Ms. Leibovitz that the photos would not be retouched &#8211; the only actions taken were the removal of dust from the film and minor color correction.</p>
<p>“Let’s be perfectly clear &#8211; Pascal does all kinds of work &#8211; but he is primarily a printer &#8211; and only does retouching when asked to. The idea for Dove was very clear at the beginning. There was to be NO retouching and there was not,” confirmed Annie Leibovitz, commenting on the ProAgecampaign.</p>
<p>Mr. Dangin responded, “The recent article published by The New Yorker incorrectly implies that I retouched the images in connection with the Dove “real women” ad. I only worked on the Dove ProAge campaign taken by Annie Leibovitz and was directed only to remove dust and do color correction &#8211; both the integrity of the photographs and the women’s natural beauty were maintained.”</p>
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		<title>By: scatterbrain</title>
		<link>http://thebeautybrains.com/2008/08/08/dove-hair-and-skin-care-pretty-persuasion/comment-page-1/#comment-30127</link>
		<dc:creator>scatterbrain</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Aug 2008 19:44:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebeautybrains.com/?p=2632#comment-30127</guid>
		<description>Well I was going to respond to the airbrush uproar, but Janis has stated the facts more succinctly than I could.

I suppose I should have been more clear in the section about using models that are real, but brevity is key here so I didn&#039;t go into a long discourse on airbrushing and photoshopping.  I&#039;ve never worked with an art director or designer worth their salt that doesn&#039;t spend an inordinate amount of time on the look of an ad.  This could mean hours of kerning type or perhaps airbrushing a wrinkle from a model&#039;s blouse or manipulating a shadow for more visual impact.  Airbrushing does not mean that the look of the model is changed, it might just mean that the photo was &quot;cleaned up&quot; to remove distracting elements like a stray hair or a slight glare off a shiny fabric.  

I&#039;m sure the images in the Dove ads had some slight airbrushing done. I honestly would be surprised if they didn&#039;t.  Raw photography is seldom fit to go straight to print.  My point was and still is the actually appearance of the models was not changed.  If you saw one of these women in an ad and then ran into them on the street, you&#039;d be able to instantly recognize them.  This much cannot be said in most instances with the heavy makeup, wigs and extensive photo editing that takes place.  A model ultimately looks nothing like his or her true self once the photo has reached completion.

Again, as Janis pointed out, the images of the Dove models may have been slightly airbrushed, but not to the extent that their appearance was altered.  Otherwise, they wouldn&#039;t have pronounced freckles, obvious rolls of fat, gaps in their teeth or wrinkles in their skin.  If you don&#039;t believe me, watch the ProAge Ad on YouTube.  These are women that look just like you and me.

And for the record, I neither pay the Beauty Brains nor accept compensation from the Beauty Brains.  They tap my knowledge from time to time to discuss advertising trends and like it or not, Dove&#039;s Campaign for Real Beauty is a huge trend away from the norms we see in the beauty advertising industry slight airbrushing included.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well I was going to respond to the airbrush uproar, but Janis has stated the facts more succinctly than I could.</p>
<p>I suppose I should have been more clear in the section about using models that are real, but brevity is key here so I didn&#8217;t go into a long discourse on airbrushing and photoshopping.  I&#8217;ve never worked with an art director or designer worth their salt that doesn&#8217;t spend an inordinate amount of time on the look of an ad.  This could mean hours of kerning type or perhaps airbrushing a wrinkle from a model&#8217;s blouse or manipulating a shadow for more visual impact.  Airbrushing does not mean that the look of the model is changed, it might just mean that the photo was &#8220;cleaned up&#8221; to remove distracting elements like a stray hair or a slight glare off a shiny fabric.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;m sure the images in the Dove ads had some slight airbrushing done. I honestly would be surprised if they didn&#8217;t.  Raw photography is seldom fit to go straight to print.  My point was and still is the actually appearance of the models was not changed.  If you saw one of these women in an ad and then ran into them on the street, you&#8217;d be able to instantly recognize them.  This much cannot be said in most instances with the heavy makeup, wigs and extensive photo editing that takes place.  A model ultimately looks nothing like his or her true self once the photo has reached completion.</p>
<p>Again, as Janis pointed out, the images of the Dove models may have been slightly airbrushed, but not to the extent that their appearance was altered.  Otherwise, they wouldn&#8217;t have pronounced freckles, obvious rolls of fat, gaps in their teeth or wrinkles in their skin.  If you don&#8217;t believe me, watch the ProAge Ad on YouTube.  These are women that look just like you and me.</p>
<p>And for the record, I neither pay the Beauty Brains nor accept compensation from the Beauty Brains.  They tap my knowledge from time to time to discuss advertising trends and like it or not, Dove&#8217;s Campaign for Real Beauty is a huge trend away from the norms we see in the beauty advertising industry slight airbrushing included.</p>
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		<title>By: Janis</title>
		<link>http://thebeautybrains.com/2008/08/08/dove-hair-and-skin-care-pretty-persuasion/comment-page-1/#comment-30062</link>
		<dc:creator>Janis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Aug 2008 02:29:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebeautybrains.com/?p=2632#comment-30062</guid>
		<description>Just watched that film -- it&#039;s brilliant, but frankly, most women do want to look like that, do believe that stuff, and do fall for it, so as long as they are doing it themselves, they can talk to their daughters all they want, but if their girls see Mommy saying, &quot;Pretty is on the inside,&quot; while Mommy is getting botulism jabbed into her face and angsting about every morsel going into her mouth, it&#039;s not going to make much difference.  That will probably tick someone off, but it&#039;s the truth.

Telling your daughter that pretty is on the inside while she sees you hating your fat, disgusting, ugly thighs and blaming them for causing global warming, mass extinction, and outbreaks of ebola ... well, your daughter will know what you really think no matter what you say to her.  We need to work on ourselves before we start working on our daughters.

I guess I just get tired of the blaming of the industry.  Women fall for that junk hook, line, and sinker.  Women have no one to blame but themselves for it.  I used to make dozens of arguments about how it was the corporate, patriarchal, industrial blah-blah&#039;s fault, but you know what?  It&#039;s women&#039;s fault.  If we really wanted to stop that garbage, it&#039;d stop cold.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just watched that film &#8212; it&#8217;s brilliant, but frankly, most women do want to look like that, do believe that stuff, and do fall for it, so as long as they are doing it themselves, they can talk to their daughters all they want, but if their girls see Mommy saying, &#8220;Pretty is on the inside,&#8221; while Mommy is getting botulism jabbed into her face and angsting about every morsel going into her mouth, it&#8217;s not going to make much difference.  That will probably tick someone off, but it&#8217;s the truth.</p>
<p>Telling your daughter that pretty is on the inside while she sees you hating your fat, disgusting, ugly thighs and blaming them for causing global warming, mass extinction, and outbreaks of ebola &#8230; well, your daughter will know what you really think no matter what you say to her.  We need to work on ourselves before we start working on our daughters.</p>
<p>I guess I just get tired of the blaming of the industry.  Women fall for that junk hook, line, and sinker.  Women have no one to blame but themselves for it.  I used to make dozens of arguments about how it was the corporate, patriarchal, industrial blah-blah&#8217;s fault, but you know what?  It&#8217;s women&#8217;s fault.  If we really wanted to stop that garbage, it&#8217;d stop cold.</p>
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