Shirley says: Hi, I’ve read about the increasing popularity of cosmetic acupuncture. Can you please tell me about its possible side effects and whether it works to improve skin’s condition?
Left Brain Laments
This logical, less emotional Beauty Brain is usually unaffected by most of the nonsense propagated by the beauty industry. Fluff claims are relatively harmless and add fun to the cosmetic experience.
But certain subjects like dubious beauty supplements, unsupported chemical scares, the inherent superiority of expensive brands, and questionable cosmetic treatments really unhinge my undies. Cosmetic acupuncture is one such subject. I’ll try to maintain control but I can’t promise anything.
What is cosmetic acupuncture?
According to this New York Times article, cosmetic acupuncture is an anti-aging treatment which involves practitioners sticking needles in your face to reduce wrinkles and other signs of aging. It’s supposed to be an alternative to a face lift. But more likely it’s placebo poppycock.
Cosmetic acupuncture benefits
The site Chimedicineworks lists the following benefits of cosmetic acupuncture.
Promotes blood and lymph circulation; increased circulation dilates peripheral blood vessels for better distribution of oxygen and nutrients as well as cellular regeneration.
Rehydrates the skin’s external layers through stimulation of the secretion of the sweat and sebacious glands which encourages the regeneration of healthy skin cells.
Helps exfolliation, aids the proliferation of new skin cells, increases nutrition to the skin’s surface, improves the quality of the skin and promotes a healthy glow.
Allows healthy “breathing” of the skin, increasing the skin’s protective ability to ward off infections and clogged pores.
Increases oxygen consumption of the skin’s external layer speeding up the release of carbon dioxide and nitrogen at the cellular level, helping to keep skin deeply clean; contributes to reducing the accumulation of excess grease on the skin’s surface.
Stimulates the production of elastin and 4 collagen proteins in the skin to reduce and soften wrinkles.
Reduces and relaxes the tension in the nerves and muscles improving the integrity of the skin resulting in improved overall facial appearance.
All that from one kind of treatment? Wow. Now you might be wondering, is this stuff true? Let’s look at the claims and the science behind it.
Deconstruction of Cosmetic Acupuncture Claims
1. Promotes circulation – The wording of this claim is important. They merely say circulation is promoted not that it is increased. There is no proof that sticking needles in your skin increases circulation.
2. Rehydrates the skin’s external layers – While needles might stimulate the sweat and sebacious glands, there certainly aren’t enough inserted to have much effect on skin moisture levels. This is unproven nonsense.
3. Helps exfoliation – Big deal. You can say almost anything you do to skin will “help” exfoliation. The claims of increasing skin nutrition is complete bogus.
4. Allows healthy “breathing” of the skin – Another fluff claim that doesn’t mean anything. Washing your face allows skin to “breath”. What is the new benefit offered here?
5. Increases oxygen consumption of the skin’s external layer – The skin’s external layer is made up of dead cells that don’t use oxygen. It’s baffling to me how acupuncture would increase the consumption of oxygen by dead cells. Plus, there is no proof that this even happens. More nonsense.
6. Stimulates the production of elastin and 4 collagen proteins – This just isn’t true. Poking yourself with needles has not been demonstrated to increase elastin and collagen levels in skin.
7. Reduces and relaxes the tension in the nerves and muscles – Of all the claims this one is the most plausible. Acupuncture is a relaxing procedure that could have some effect on muscle tension and thus slightly change your appearance. But that hardly seems worth $150 per treatment.
Acupuncture is bunk
For years people have been trying to prove that acupuncture has some scientific validity. And study after study demonstrates there is no benefit beyond a placebo effect. According to Quackwatch.com, the National Council Against Health Fraud concluded:
- Acupuncture is unproven
- Its theory and practice are based on primitive and fanciful concepts of health and disease that bear no relationship to present scientific knowledge
- Research during the past 20 years has not demonstrated that acupuncture is effective against any disease.
- Perceived effects of acupuncture are probably due to a combination of expectation, suggestion, counter-irritation, conditioning, and other psychologic mechanisms.
Beauty Brains Bottom Line
If you’re going to get a cosmetic procedure done, don’t waste money on acupuncture. Save up for a full blown face lift. At least that will be done by a reputable doctor and has been proven to work. And if surgery isn’t something you want to do, stick to the high quality facial products you can buy at your local drug store. They’re just as good as the department store products.
What do YOU think? Do you believe in cosmetic acupuncture? Leave a comment for the rest of the Beauty Brains community.
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As someone who is familiar with the practice of acupuncture (I know people who practice it and many others who receive treatment) I would urge you to examine closer. Your slight online query is insufficient to prove that acupuncture is “placebo poppycock”. Although I agree that there is no evidence for acupuncture being an effective non-surgical face lift, acupuncture as one of the oldest healing practices in the world is an effective pain-reliever and is not “bunk”. Readers should be careful and do more research, beyond “quackwatch.com”, if they are interested in the practice of acupuncture. Your lacking research in your conclusion that “acupuncture is bunk” ignores that it is an effective, alternative, non-surgical, non-medicated pain-reliever with low to no side-effects.
Thanks for the information Sara. But do you think you could provide some research that you could direct me to. I’m always willing to learn something. If you’ve got evidence that acupuncture isn’t just a placebo effect where is it?
Here is one http://www.naturalnews.com/020939.html
I have lost 10kgs thru acupuncture treatments (do note that this is combined with a diet plan) and the wgt stays off.
I wouldn’t say acupuncture works for everything but your statement throws of centuries of Chinese medicinal works.
But it did worked for me for my wgt lost.
And in your point 4, you’ve said that “Poking yourself with needles has not been demonstrated to increase elastin and collagen levels in skin.”
I believe acupuncture is more than just ‘Poking yourself’ and this statement shows your lack of knowledge and understanding of it.
The link you gave to NCAHF is dated in 1990.
i too disagree with your article.
chinese medicine and acupuncture has been around for CENTRURIES. And if it doesn’t work, why do people continue to use and practice it? I have experienced it myself, I have had back pain (I know this is not to do with beauty), for years, and after a 10 sessions of acupuncture, the pain has almost disappeared. The healing process is different for everyone, so 10 sessions for me, may well be 20 sessions or possibly 2 sessions for someone else. I have also had a friend who has had acupuncture treatments and have had great improvements with her sleeping and period pains. It was disappointing to read this article published on the beauty brains – because I have always thought highly of it. Now I think I want to re-consider.
Hi,
I recently got accupuncture for my back. I’ve lived in constant extreme pain due to scoliosis for years. After one session (I know it’s supposed to take several but for me it worked after one). I have no pain. I’m so grateful to be pain-free I can’t even tell you. And that night I slept like a dead person. I don’t know about the cosmetiic use of it (that does sound like bull) but from someone who’s tried it personally, if anyone is any pain, accupuncture is amazing and I so highly recommend it. Left brain, I encourage you to try it and do a follow up report. I would be curious to see if first hand experience with it would change your mind.
Thanks
I go to acupuncture twice a month for hormonal acne and sunspots and my skin has never been better. My sunspots are going away and I hardly ever break out anymore. I’ve spent thousands of dollars at the dermatologist and spa but cosmetic acupuncture is the only thing that’s worked for me so far.
Forget it girls, the beauty brains is close minded…… too bad for them!
Carolyn: Actually we’re not closed minded we’re just skeptical. If you can show us credible data that proves acupuncture is truly effective, we’ll accept that conclusion.
As a Doctor of Oriental Medicine I appreciate the opportunity to weigh in on this topic. I have taken several aesthetic acupuncture classes and every time the instructor clearly states that at best cosmetic acupuncture is “facial rejuvenation.” Having said that, I know that there are many spas that charge $150 for a facial that at best would classify as “facial rejuvenation.” When I perform cosmetic acupuncture my primary goal is to treat whatever underlying conditions the client presents so that they feel (as well as look) better when they leave my clinic.
You ask for scientific studies on the efficacy of acupuncture, which is hard to provide since the Chinese do not use control groups (they find the practice unethical). Perhaps the following will be helpful: http://tcm.health-info.org/WHO-treatment-list.htm
Slightly off topic, but have you ever heard of the South East Asian practice of susuk?
It’s like acupuncture, except the needles are left in the skin.
Supposedly women who have gotten susuk to look pretty also have to refrain from looking in a mirror – ever. Otherwise, they become really ugly.
Also, the needles have to be removed before the woman dies, or she cannot die. (just suffers …)
Thought you might find this interesting …
Regarding acupuncture and science, science relies on what is tangible: what can be seen is therefore proven to exist. However, acupuncture relies on what CANNOT be seen- the energy meridians that run along our bodies. We cannot see the wind, but we know that it exists because we see it’s effects. I fail to understand why science has yet to recognize the BILLIONS of people that find relief from acupuncture and yet it is not deemed credible- perhaps because BILLIONS of people make money off of us being sick.
Pharmaceutical companies can’t make money off healthy people, and the trillions they make every year equals big income for them and our government. Ever wonder why the FDA controls our FOOD and DRUGS? They allow food to be processed far beyond what our bodies could ever digest, and allow trans fats etc., which many other countries ban. Then- they have organic produce cost a fortune, meaning higher income families can afford it, and it therefore supports the well-being of the higher taxpayer. Through this scheme they can control the health of this nation- which means dollar signs because millions of us are taking drugs to get “well”. THAT is why most insurance companies do not cover natural doctors or alternative procedures- to effective maybe?? I mean if you actually CURE something, you won’t be buying more meds as a band-aid for your problem, which means you also won’t be buying other meds to compensate for the side effects.
Eastern medicine is as old as time- and the asian people are some of the healthiest on the planet. You BeautyBrains say there is no scientific evidence for acupuncture, and go so far as to even mock it several times, and yet I challenge any one of YOU to go have it done and tell me it’s not effective. The scientific proof is in the vitality of the Asian people- which includes a lack of chemical medicine. AND if scientific studies are SO accurate- how come the results seem to be so conflicting. There will always be human errors to skew results.
I completely support advances in modern medicine, and I absolutely do believe they have a place. But I am infuriated how demeaning our culture is to asian medicine. Thy have had thousands of years to perfect their healing arts and understanding of the human body, and we believe that in less than 200 years, our medicine is somehow better. In general, our medicine may keep people healthy, as in taking away symptoms, but it doesn’t keep people WELL.
We have the “greatest” medical resources and are THE SICKEST people in WORLD- physically, mentally, psychologically and spiritually.
If THAT isn’t evidence, I don’t know what is.
well said kristen.
Wow. There sure are a lot of tin hats coming out of the woodwork. There are ancient healing practices all over the world but if it doesn’t have clinical data to back it up, impassioned posts accusing the mean old scientists of being close minded won’t get me to try acupuncture. I’ll be nice and assume that a little storm would brew if the Brains criticized homeothapy or ayurveda.
@Selenite – You never know. People sporting tin hats have been known to be right before; I suggest reading up on Operation Northwoods.
Well, all I can say is that if British sailors had waited for scientific tests to prove the efficacy of citrus fruits against scurvy, then a lot of them would’ve enjoyed their spongy gums and diarrhea. The same goes for the millions of Chinese who knew for centuries that celery lowers blood pressure (which has only been proven in clinical testing within the last twenty years), and that green tea is an antioxidant powerhouse. Keep in mind that they were going off “poppycock” notions of food energy and chi.
What we need to do is find a balance between traditional medicine and science, as they do in China, where Western medicine is no better or worse than Chinese medicine. As for acupuncture, the only thing I can find dangerous about it is if you find a badly qualified practitioner. Find an experienced doctor who knows what they’re doing, and if it works for you, then so much the better.
So within a minute of searching for ‘acupuncture effectiveness’ in PNAS, I found this interesting article:
New findings of the correlation between acupoints and corresponding brain cortices using functional MRI
“A preliminary study of the correlation between acupuncture points (acupoints) for the treatment of eye disorders suggested by ancient Oriental literature and the corresponding brain localization for vision described by Western medicine was performed by using functional MRI (fMRI). The vision-related acupoint (VA1) is located in the lateral aspect of the foot, and when acupuncture stimulation is performed there, activation of occipital lobes is seen by fMRI. ”
Not only is this cool, but it shows something interesting. Maybe science isn’t too advanced for acupuncture–maybe acupuncture somehow touches on principles that just have not all yet been shown through science?
I know this isn’t exactly proof that COSMETIC acupuncture works, but hey, have they tested that yet?
Beauty brains, I appreciate what you do, but before you call something a load of BS, do some more current research. And do your OWN research, don’t just paraphrase a 10 year old article. I really expect more from you: you claim to be ‘skeptical’ but you embrace the points put forth in the article without searching for more information?
—————
Rosa,
If you looked further you would’ve read that the authors retracted this article as they were unable to duplicate the results.
http://www.pnas.org/content/103/27/10527.2.full
The problem with quick research is that you’re apt to make mistakes like the one you just made. You didn’t get the whole story.
acupuncture works–especially good for lower back pain and myalga of the neck–
wow… these are some amazing responses to acupuncture.
As a personal testament to acupuncture. it really does wonders for lower back pain like melanie said. I have chronic lower back pain and i’ve gone to chiropractors and orthopedist and i’ve tried everything they’ve recommended and the pain never went away. oddly enough, the acupuncture works.
on a more serious level, I agree with Letta. You can’t disregard everything merely because it has yet to been proven. If we did, there would be no progress and many of the advances we now take as fact would not be so. We won’t know about trace minerals like selenium or sodium and our understanding of vitamin E and D would be so limited and wrong. The same goes for medicine and natural medicine.
Being asian, I grew up hearing of the effectiveness of eastern medical practices but, being westernized, I didn’t believe it due to the lack of scientific data. However, I’ve come to realize the limitations of clinical trials and scientific training first hand working in a university research lab. Slowly however, there has been increased research and acceptance of eastern medicine and even an integration of it (many HMOs are incorporating acupuncture to their plans for alternative pain management). I’m not sure how acupuncture works cosmetically but I think some of the claims may actually be true. Besides, stress is a HUGE aging factor and reducing can help.
Again, I’m quibbling with your sources. I’m a natural skeptic, but I am also thorough. And quackwatch just ain’t the place for me to get my acupuncture information. Now, I’m not going to get into the debate of eastern/western standards of evidence or conceptions of the body. I’m going to stick with the western perspective. A brief review the Cochrane Library’s collection of systematic reviews (http://www.cochrane.org/reviews/) of the use of acupuncture in various conditions seems to show that acupuncture may sometimes be effective, depending on the medical issue, and that there is a general need for more study. So I wouldn’t dismiss all acupuncture therapy out of hand, even though I am your standard pill-poppin American and have never tried it.
Here is the National intitute of health (NIH) website that provides links to peer-reviewed medical journals. THese are the same journals used by Academic(University affilliated) Hospitals in the US, Canada and UK. You could also perform a PUBMED search. I doubt the general public would understand these journal articles though.
There is evidence that Acupuncture has more than placebo effect in certain conditions. It is wrong to make a general statement that Acupuncture is a sham because you do not specify which disease or symptoms that this procedure is treating.
There are a lot of studies provided in the above link but I do not have time to go through all of them appropriately or I would write and publish a review paper myself.
I’ve got to weigh in on this one. I enjoy beauty brains but am finding your answers increasingly flip and not substantiated. This latest condemnation of acupuncture for ANY type of therapeutic treatment or cosmetic improvement had me lost for words. Obviously you didn’t do anything but google the term “cosmetic acupuncture”, read a few websites that supported your initial opinions and write your answer.
I actually work at one of those spa that offers acupuncture for facial rejuvenation. (Did you think about visiting a salon and interviewing the acupuncturist or their clients? ) I’ve seen the before and after pictures for many women over the course of treatment and even seen several of these same women close up since I am their massage therapist. The needles somehow stimulate the facial nerves in such a way that the skin glows and wrinkles are greatly reduced. Strain patterns (sagging) can also be partially or wholy reversed. I can cause a difference between the two sides of your face simply by lightly stroking one side of your face and stimulating the nerve that enervates the skin and muscles. I can also affect a difference in how your face looks by working the muscles and connective tissue – in minutes. So why wouldn’t acupuncture work? I agree with the other posts that you’re not really doing research by a quick review of websites that are biased one way or another. If you really are using a rigorous scientific inquiry, you would survey the literature at a medical site before forming and broadcasting such a superficial and misleading opinion as a fact. Earn your title as a brain and do some real cerebral work. You’ve done your readers a real disservice by telling them acupuncture is bunk.
PS. The picture on your post is reminiscent of a Japanese kabuki or a geisha girl, which are Japanese not Chinese. Sloppy!
Spa Girl (and everyone else)
Thanks so much for your comments. You’ve inspired me to dig a bit deeper into this acupuncture nonsense and I’m even more convinced that there is nothing to it beyond a PLACEBO EFFECT.
I never said it didn’t work at all. I said it doesn’t work any better than a placebo effect so all the nonsense about chi and energy and facial stimulation is just that…nonsense.
I did a search in pubmed & the Cochrane library as suggested and what you find are studies without proper controls, without big enough groups of people and other significant flaws.
What you don’t find is proof that acupuncture is any more effective for facial wrinkles (or anything else) than a placebo.
I found this review of a recent “peer reviewed” article about acupuncture enlightening.
My favorite part is the analogy about the tooth fairy. You can collect statistically significant data about the number of teeth you leave under your pillow and how much money each generates and come to some statistically valid conclusions about the tooth fairy. But it doesn’t matter because the tooth fairy (like acupuncture) hasn’t been proven to be anything but a myth.
Where is the proof that acupuncture isn’t just a fairy tale? I haven’t seen any yet. Please direct me to your specific sources.
How timely as I’ve been thinking about this (can acupuncture be a natural alternative to botox, anti aging products and procedures?)recently. The article does side with my doubts but it hasn’t totally swayed me to completely stamp it as “quackery”.
On the side, this is the second article that has left me feeling a little off and wanting less and less to visit the site..shame as I use to really enjoy it.
I think the problem with most of these readers is they are too embarrassed to believe they have had positive results from something which only has a placebo effect. You can’t underestimate the placebo effect – that ‘somehow their skin just glows’ can easily be accounted for by the fact they’re, well, suckered in and hence in a pretty good mood. If it makes you feel good, for whatever reason, that’s enough really. So what if you honestly think your face looks better when you use your lucky pink face washer. It probably does, because you’re content. Positive emotions definitely lift your appearance. Deal with it, and stop giving out on the writers – there’s no scientific evidence, and that’s what they have relayed to you.
Also, I can’t believe the excuse ‘people have been doing if for years, why would they continue if it didn’t work’. that’s the stupidest thing I have heard. many people are still in churches praying on their knees, aren’t they? and what do people get out of that, other than a placebo effect?
And someone crapping on about pharmaceutical companies(hey, I’m with you there, it’s true) but how is that different for people practicing acupuncture? it’s a job, they get paid too for chrissakes.
Actually, my Daughters Doctor after not being able herself to treat my Daughters Fibromyalgia suggested Acupuncture…
After over 20 treatments that cost me over $1,000, she didn’t feel any better, was put on Lyrica and now has NO pain…
I would never take my kid to anyone like that again for anything. Her face became infected from the acupuncture. After all, holes in you skin really isn’t a good idea. It lets in all kinds of bacteria.
Needles to say, I fired her Doctor at The Mass General Hospital in Boston, got her a new Doctor at Beth Israel in Boston that told me, she’s lucky she didn’t get more than a bacterial infection in her face. He’s treated blood poison from people that came to him from acupuncture!
Don’t waste your money or health on this nonsense!
also, as some have stated here, “How the Chinese are in so much better health than us”, Explain how every horrible disease come from China?
Before you go off on that statement, check it out. All of our viruses and disease comes from China. That’s where it starts..
I guess maybe they should try some antibiotics so it doesn’t keep spreading world wide and take the damn needles out of their infected bodies!
Kristien, you make no sense!
Nerve points on the bottom of the foot can also be relieved by using a simple golf ball, rolling it back a forth under your foot. Works for sure and doesn’t cause bacteria to get into the skin or blood stream! Let’s think responsibly here people! Acupuncture is a fools therapy! Try PT for your back instead! I bet that will work and your insurance WILL pay for it!
donna- if “acupuncture is a fool’s therapy”, then why are there so many comments from people saying that it has worked for them?
I can’t imagine why Beauty Brain relies soley on her own opinion and others’ poor research for questioning the efficacy of acupuncture, especially when she has never had it herself.
C’mon now. Why are hundreds of western MD’s now taking medical acpuncture courses at UCLA Medical school to learn this effective modality. Answer: because it works and their patients are demanding it because they’ve gotten no benefit from Western medical treatments. And of course, doctors don’t want to miss out on any extra revenue by refering out to a board-certified acupuncturist. Why has HMO giant, Kaiser, hired licensed acupuncturists on their staff? They wouldn’t unless they had seen it work time and again. After all, they are an organization with a bottom line to maintain. Many other insurance companies cover acupuncture treatment because it is an excellent means of preventive medicine. I ,for one, don’t think that an MD has any place giving acupuncture when they have taken only a weekend course. They are simply not adequately trained. In California where I live, acupuncturists are considered a primary-care practitioner and must attend a rigorous 4-year academic and clinical medical program. In this medicine, one can easily be a life-long learner due to the massive amounts of information one needs to master. Which furthermore, is why I don’t think an MD can do an adequate job administering acupuncture with such paltry weekend training.
In Asia, Acupuncture and Traditional Asian Medicine has effectively treated all kinds of medical problems for over 2,500 years. It has been a regularly-used modality in treating the Chinese Olympic athletes in the recent Beijing Olympic Games. In contrast, Western medicine has been practiced a mere 200 years. And check for yourself this interesting fact: over 250,000 people are killed annually by medical errors, including wrong medication, treatment and doctor error. It has become the third leading cause of death in this country.
In our western culture we have been brainwashed to validate only scientifically supported research which has been proven in many cases to hold many flaws and inaccuracies. Even revered journals such as JAMA and the New Englend Journal of Medicine have been found to contain biased, unsubstantiated opinions. When it comes to acupuncture research there are tens of thousands of references to it’s proven efficacy published in China (in Chinese) The problem is, in this country, no one wants to pay for the reserch to be done because there is no money in it. Big Pharma controls so many aspects of Western medicine not the least of which is the medical schools here in the U.S. Thankfully, there are a few dedicated medical professionals out there who are translating proven research from Chinese into English. It is a painstaking process and could truly be considered a labor of love for those who are involved.
There is so much more to say, I could be here all day. But suffice to say, people in this country don’t understand the foundations of acupuncture and Eastern medicine. It can’t be explained using Western terminology. It is a deep and profound method of healing that goes beyond what most people can comprehend. It is based on the fundamental principle of Qi (chee)which has no Western equivalent. No wonder skeptics are quick to automatically say it doesn’t work. They simply have no concept of what the practitioners who practice this medicine understand. In the West, the human body is viewed as a machine and doctors are like mechanics. Patients are useally given treatment only after disease and pathology has manifested. In a similar way to a auto mechanic, if one’s heart goes bad the doctor/mechanic does surgery to replace the faulty valves, or can install a pacemaker, or even replace one’s heart with a manufactured one. In contrast, a practioner of Eastern medicine views the body as more like a living garden which needs to be carefully cultivated and nurtured to address the root of the problem before it becomes a disease. It is a medicine that successfully treats all levels of the body, mind and spirit.
Regarding cosmetic acupuncture, it will never replace a surgical face-lift. It wasn’t meant to. Two of the many things it will do, is promote the production and movement of qi and blood in the underlying tissues as well as cause a slight micro-trauma which increases collagen production. And I might add that a good acupuncturist will always treat the body and core constitution at the same time. Any imbalances in one’s hormones, digestion, and emotions will be addressed and are integral to the procedure’s success.
Having lived in LA, I can say firsthand that cosmetic acupuncture works! Many celebrities anonymously undertake the treatments and swear it helps keep them refreshed and young-looking.
“donna- if “acupuncture is a fool’s therapy”, then why are there so many comments from people saying that it has worked for them?”
I don’t know if you’re being funny or what.
@Donna – Lolwhut.
Kudos to you for taking your daughter to a practitioner who wasn’t qualified. Before undergoing treatment of ANY kind, whether it’s taking a drug like Lyrica or using alternative therapies, you should always do research on it (including the practitioner) so you know what you’re doing. I hope that you did so before paying for your daughter’s treatment – and if you did, then I apologize, and owe your daughter’s misfortune to bad luck. But if you just followed your doctor’s words without doing your homework, then it’s your fault.
@amy – Read Jante’s post. jane’s statement may have been empty at first, but Jante does more than enough to compensate for it. She makes an excellent argument, but you obviously didn’t think it was worth commenting on.
lol donna, your dumba**.
sif u dont do your research before u take ur daughter to an un – or under qualified practitioner.
SUCKS TO BE U! hahaha
@Andy – Just saying the truth. A little common sense doesn’t hurt once in a while.
^ To add to that, you made a valiant effort to dumb down my statement to lolcat status. Too bad it still makes sense, though. The efficacy of acupuncture maybe be sketchy, but the very least she could’ve done was make sure she was educated about it.
A little research never hurt anyone, and could’ve prevented the infection. If she did this, her daughter may or may not have benefited from the treatment – but at least she wouldn’t have been infected.
gb2 middle school, Andy, and come up with an argument next time.
It’s very, very difficult to do an effective acupuncture study. The problem is, acupuncture doesn’t lend itself to rote testing by the scientific method, because it requires the acupuncturist’s judgement. I wrote about this in an article.
That being said, I haven’t seen evidence one way or another if facial acupuncture works.
Okay, I’m not sure how many people didn’t see any benefits from
acupuncture, but two things:
1. It’s an art. Some people are good at administering it, others will suck,
no matter how much training you get or have gotten. Kind of like how some
people are amazing surgeons and others are very mediocre. Unfortunately,
unlike doctors, there aren’t any ‘exams’ or any other way to distinguish
the extremely qualified from the bleh (except by reputation) to weed out
the bad practitioners. This probably contributes to why acupuncture isn’t
really a trustworthy practice (at least in the US. I say in the US because
in most asian countries, there are soooooo many acupuncturists that the
really bad ones tend to get weeded out)
2. Acupuncture is only effective in certain conditions. This makes sense:
it’s kind of like how massage therapy can relieve tense muscles but can’t
cure brain tumors.
“Clinical studies presented by the National Institutes of Health (NIH) have
shown that acupuncture is an effective treatment for nausea caused by
surgical anesthesia and cancer chemotherapy, as well as for dental pain
after surgery.
The NIH also has found that acupuncture is useful by itself, or in
combination with conventional therapies, to treat addiction, headaches,
menstrual cramps, tennis elbow, fibromyalgia, myofascial pain,
osteoarthritis, low back pain, carpal tunnel syndrome, and asthma, and to
assist in stroke rehabilitation.”
uchospitals edu/online-library/content=P00171
Left brain, I’m not sure about your article, but I’m pretty sure the NIH is
a dependable source. (I haven’t read the exact articles that this conclusion
was drawn from, but the NIH tends to be pretty thorough if anything).
Donna,
I’m confused about how China is the beginning of all disease. Do you have a
source for this? Ebola was first found in Africa, I think the polio scare
was most talked about in the US, mad cow stuff is pretty much centered in
England. Maybe I’m wrong??
Also Donna, I’m not sure where you took your kid, but every place I’ve been
to sterilizes all needles, and the holes are so small that they don’t even
usually bleed. Are you sure you went to a proper acupuncturist and not some
guy who went and bought a bunch of sewing needles to make a bunch of money
off some poor unsuspecting people?
Hi folks,
I must admit to being a little skeptical about acupuncture myself, but several years ago on television I saw surgery being performed on a baby of just a few months old. The surgeon was reluctant to anaesthetise such a young patient so they used acupuncture, the baby was lying there quite happily with a load of needles sticking out of it’s ear while the surgeon cut open it’s abdomen with a scalpel and resected a portion of the intestine. The baby was far too young to be aware of the placebo effect but was obviously fully conscious and in no distress, even when the wound was being sutured. I guess it’s worth a try if I ever need it!
We have some information on this topic on our website at http://www.acubalance.ca Feel free to have a look and browse.
Acupuncture worked for me.I would consider it again for pain management.I have a liver disease and being a registered nurse with 28 years of experience,my liver wouldn’t have survived
the dosage of pain-killers.Acupuncture was the last solution.I was sketpical because unfortunately I was ‘educated’/'conditioned to despise/demean many things non-european(including medicine).I was wrong but tried.It worked and it worked for me.I DO NOT NEED ANY OTHER PROOF.
Sorry for my English.My languages are German,Russian,Polish,and Ukrainian.
Best regards to everybody.Just my opinion.
@Zhanna: Thanks for your comments. The placebo effect is an amazing, useful thing.
Beauty Brains, I would like to see your opinion in regards to the points made in Jante’s and Rosa’s posts. Right now, I can’t help but feel you’re ignoring these arguments because they’re so full of win.
I always smirk when I hear of those who consider acupunture to be nothing more than a placebo.
I can’t comment on the cosmetic benefits but I offer my thoughts on treatments that I’ve had. One in particular was most noticeable.
The received acupunture for a severe ankle sprain that caused a great deal of pain and very prominent swelling for nearly 10 months. My acupunturist said that acupunture will help the circulation and eliminate swelling. After two weeks of treatments, the swelling had completely disappeared. My pain was reduced by 90%.
Coincidence? Swelling for 10 months and I couldn’t walk longer than a half hour before having to sit in agonizing pain. I went to injury therapists and among other professsionals which did nothing eleviate the pain. Yet after 2 weeks, swelling that encompassed my ankle, hard as rock had completely vanished.
Think what you will. Personally I will never dismiss the merits of acupunture.
Oxygen.
The earth is round.
Chicken soup is good for you when you are sick.
Micro-organisms
These are some of the ideas/theories that were considered “poppycock” until proven sometimes years later.
Humans are notorious for thinking that the knowledge they possess in the moment is;
1. superior to that of the past
2. complete and whole
3. correct
Yet time and again we have been proven wrong and those with theories that we can not yet prove labeled quacks.
The danger is that we stop being scientists meaning that we stop exploring the universe with out judgement.
Trying to prove or disprove something is not science.
If you want interesting reading try Bill Moyers special “Healing and the Mind.” He discusses what we know about how the body works and Candice Pert NIH researcher and discoverer of endorphn recpetor sites has some interesting thoughts. Real researchers know that there is much more they don’t understand.
Stop the hyperbole and arguments, opinions are like assholes we all have one. Open your minds to the amazing world around us and consider the possibilities.
Albert Einstein
“Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen.”
Albert Einstein
“Technological progress is like an axe in the hands of a pathological criminal.”
Albert Einstein
“If A is a success in life, then A equals x plus y plus z. Work is x; y is play; and z is keeping your mouth shut.”
Albert Einstein
“Whoever undertakes to set himself up as a judge of Truth and Knowledge is shipwrecked by the laughter of the gods.”
Have a great day.
Most of what we know is incorrect. However, the correctness or incorrectness of one idea does not mean another, unproven idea is correct.
Current scientific knowledge is superior to past knowledge because it has years of modification and experiment to prove whether it’s valid or not. Einstein’s theories are superior to Newton’s which were superior to the ancient Greeks before him.
Acupuncture has been tested, studied. The result of these experiments is that it provides no better benefit than a placebo. Stop with the platitudes and show some scientific study that proves that position wrong.
These are not platitudes. The reality is that so called scientific studies are plagued with errors. As an acupuncturist, educator and researcher I am well aware of the way any study can intentionally or unintentionally be swayed to reflect the opinion of the principle investigator. There are studies that prove things both ways. Look up the research of Dr. Brian Berman from the University of Maryland re: arthritis of the knee and acupuncture. This study was highly quoted (and not retracted) when it came out several years ago. Also a highly respected doctor, Lixing Lao from the Society of Acupuncture Research(SAR) also from the University of Maryland is another source. If you are concerned about the integrity of the research then you should examine allopathic research studies and you will find that they are funded by doctors, manufacturers, and pharmaceutical companies which have much to gain by positive results.
Did you bother to look up Candice Pert and her qoutes? Will you bother to look at any information that does not support your point of view? The only thing worse than ignorant desemination of poorly informed thought in cloth of wisdom is a willful neglect to examine all of the data with an open mind.
How the study was conducted matters. What points are to be used based upon what selection criteria? You can not come to conclusion about research unless you know/read everything that occurred in the study. Quoting the conclusion does not help you understand how they arrived at the outcome. If you truly are the “brains” you should really know better.
Look at the research about angioplasty and the simple fact that 5 year morbidity does not change and may in fact be adversley affected by the procedure. The necessity of c-sections and the myriad of other excessively used expensive and ineffective therapies which are not held to the same “scientific” standard as CAM therapies.
@David – I can understand your reluctance to accept any truth that would indicate the subject you dedicated your life to is fake.
I would suggest that you are not being open-minded. I could be convinced (with scientific evidence) that acupuncture is more than just a placebo. Is there any evidence you could ever read/see that would prove to you that acupuncture is just a placebo? Which position is more open-minded?
Quotes from true-believer experts are worthless. Where is the science? What controlled study has Candice Pert done specifically related to using acupuncture for cosmetic reasons?
I can’t comment on the specifics of the article you reference because I’m only able to access a summary. But even if we agree that in that one study “real” acupuncture out-preformed “sham” acupuncture, what about the dozens of other studies that show no effect? How do you explain no effect? How do you explain when “sham” acupuncture actually works better as in this study? Goldman, R.H., Stason, W.B., Park, S.K., Kim, R., Schnyer, R.N., Davis, R.B., Legedza, A.T., Kaptchuk, T.J. (2008). Acupuncture for Treatment of Persistent Arm Pain Due to Repetitive Use: A Randomized Controlled Clinical Trial. Clin J. Pain, 24(3), 211-218.
The original question was whether Cosmetic Acupuncture reduces wrinkles. Would you agree that there is no evidence that it does?
There are studies that support acupuncture as more effective than sham and there are serious complications with the sham studies. Check out the 1996 NIH concensus meetings and you will find in depth discussions of how and more importantly WHY the use of sham acupuncture may not be an appropriate testing tool to measure effectiveness.
The people I mention are not “true believers” they are researchers and more importantly one is an allopathic physician and the other has a western PhD. Candice Pert has nothing to do with acupuncture or CAM at NIH.
You can not accept research from only those people you deem to be “non-believers” as that is a bias as well and makes it impossible to ever satisfy your doubts. That is the problem with current research techniques in general. If you don’t want to believe or entertain the possibilty then there is no way to learn because you have already made up your mind.
To answer your question I frequently wonder about and question my beliefs about acupuncture and what it does. Most of us do to some degree and that is why we do research. Having been raised squarely in the mid-west I struggle with my ingrained prejudices against the perception of snake oil salesmen. (Hence the quote from Einstein.)
That is why I often turn to animal acupuncture to remind me that those without human beliefs and stories respond well to acupuncture. I can not explain that away.
I have no problem with you questioning the validity of facial rejuvenation as a treatment and it’s claims. I know nothing about it so I can not comment.
The part of your conclusion that is inappropriate is the portion where you call all acupuncture “bunk” sighting only reports from prejudicial websites.
When you take studies from one source the Cochrane library and from the Medical Fraud watch group which are biased “non-believers” and discount the information I gave you it reveals your prejudice. You asked for a well designed study that demonstrated effecacy over sham and I gave you one. That was just one. I also gave you the name of an organization dedicated to researching acupuncture.
I could fill this site with more if you like but I don’t think that would serve. Thank you for listening and the dialogue.
When I become confused (which I do often) and think I know something I remind myself that:
“Knowledge and wisdom are not the same thing.”
David
Using acupuncture for facial “rejuvination” seems completely silly to me. This is merely people trying to capitalize on the CAM fad through people’s vanity. We agree there.
These are the reasons I’m undecided on acupuncture, and will wait for more studies before I decide:
1. There is evidence that it may not be effective compared to similarly designed placebos.
2. It likely doesn’t work from the mechanism originally thought. (No big surprise there. New science usually bests older untested theory.)
3. There are some studies that have shown it works better than a non-sham-acupuncture placebo, and occasionally there is a study showing it works better than conventional medicine.
4. Much much more study is needed. It needs to be double blind and placebo controlled. Placebos should themselves be inert. (If one placebo gives a clinically significant positive result as compared to another placebo or traditional medication, that is evidence that the placebo is not inert and therefore not producing a “placebo effect.”)
I also want to know why you have ignored the information from the NIH that one user posted. Surely, this is a legitimate source.
The jury is still out on acupuncture, and I’m not ready to dismiss it completely. I do believe there MAY be some legitimate uses for acupuncture, but it may be years before we know for sure. In the meantime, as long as you use a qualified practitioner who uses fresh needles every time and don’t have any contraindications (there are a couple), acupuncture is perfectly safe to use in addition to conventional treatment or after all conventional options have been exhausted. (Personally, I would not use any alternative treatment INSTEAD of conventional medicine, but that’s just me.)
More studies need to be done, older studies need to be replicated, and there needs to be a way to design better sham acupuncture techniques, which is a problem when trying to design placebos for these studies. Even the NIH has said that there are difficulties in using sham acupuncture as a placebo. I am posting the conclusion from the NIH consensus statement on acupuncture below. Follow this link to find more information about research techniques and sham acupuncture: http://consensus.nih.gov/1997/1997Acupuncture107html.htm
NIH Consensus Statement:
Conclusions
Acupuncture as a therapeutic intervention is widely practiced in the United States. There have been many studies of its potential usefulness. However, many of these studies provide equivocal results because of design, sample size, and other factors. The issue is further complicated by inherent difficulties in the use of appropriate controls, such as placebo and sham acupuncture groups.
However, promising results have emerged, for example, efficacy of acupuncture in adult post-operative and chemotherapy nausea and vomiting and in postoperative dental pain. There are other situations such as addiction, stroke rehabilitation, headache, menstrual cramps, tennis elbow, fibromyalgia, myofascial pain, osteoarthritis, low back pain, carpal tunnel syndrome, and asthma for which acupuncture may be useful as an adjunct treatment or an acceptable alternative or be included in a comprehensive management program. Further research is likely to uncover additional areas where acupuncture interventions will be useful.
Findings from basic research have begun to elucidate the mechanisms of action of acupuncture, including the release of opioids and other peptides in the central nervous system and the periphery and changes in neuroendocrine function. Although much needs to be accomplished, the emergence of plausible mechanisms for the therapeutic effects of acupuncture is encouraging.
The introduction of acupuncture into the choice of treatment modalities readily available to the public is in its early stages. Issues of training, licensure, and reimbursement remain to be clarified. There is sufficient evidence, however, of its potential value to conventional medicine to encourage further studies.
[b]There is sufficient evidence of acupuncture’s value to expand its use into conventional medicine and to encourage further studies of its physiology and clinical value.[/b] (emphasis mine… if xml tags work…)
[end quote from NIH]
I’m also posting an article from Science Daily about a recent acupuncture article that did not show acupuncture as successful. The article is helpful because it talks about one of the problems with sham acupuncture procedures, the weaknesses in current studies (not enough double-blinded, placebo controlled studies), and the weakness in the study itself (did not contain a third control that does not use sham acupuncture.) Here is the link and a quote from the article:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/11/081112194913.htm
“The meta-analysis showed that acupuncture on the day of embryo transfer leads to a significantly higher pregnancy rate when compared to controls. But in the vast majority of the studies included in the meta-analysis, the controls received no acupuncture and the patients were not blinded. My current study compared real and placebo acupuncture in a double blind setting, which should be the ideal model in research. However, the results suggest that placebo acupuncture may not be inert.”
Here is a link to another study in which the real acupuncture is not shown to be more effective than the sham acupuncture: http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/news/fullstory_74040.html
The interesting point here is that the sham and the real acupuncture BOTH WORK better than the preventative drugs in some trials. This is a fascinating quote:
“Skeptics,” Linde said, might consider this to be a sign that acupuncture works only by placebo effect — that is, patients think their pain is better because they’ve received the therapy. [b]But, he added, the fact that acupuncture bested preventive drugs in some trials suggests otherwise. [/b]
“So it is effective,” Linde said, “but other mechanisms besides correct location of needles seem to have a major role.”
(again, emphasis mine if xml works)
[end quote]
Lastly, I feel your comment to the nurse was very dismissive, almost to the point of being mean. Was that really necessary? The nurse freely admitted that she had tried western conventional medicine first, and it did not work for her. Yes, the placebo effect happens in knowledgeable people as well as those who are less well informed, but there is SOME evidence that acupuncture DOES work. The nurse did not automatically dismiss western medicine or science, as many people here have. The nurse did not suggest that there isn’t some placebo effect at work at least some of the time. She did not use the same tired arguments of testimonials (other than her own), claiming it’s worked for many people without evidence to back it up, or claiming that alternative medicine is “better” because it has been used for thousands of years, blah, blah, blah. She merely offered her experience, and you came across as accusing her of lying, when you could have acknowledged the placebo effect as a possibility rather than the definitive cause of her relief. Gee, how scientific of you.
@Meredith,
Thank you so much for your well thought out comments.
Medical research is not my area of expertise. However, as a skeptic & scientist, I operate from the null hypothesis. That is, a treatment is not true until it is proven. In my view, there have been no well-designed, double-blind, placebo controlled studies that demonstrate acupuncture works.
The researcher you reference, Linde, is a proponent of acupuncture and her conclusion is not consistent with Occam’s Razor. The fact that acupuncture doesn’t out-perform a fake acupuncture just means they both work through the placebo effect. The placebo effect is a REAL effect. My comment to the nurse was not meant as derogatory. All the effects from acupuncture, when tested under rigid conditions are consistent with a placebo effect. Her experience, too, was consistent with the placebo effect. Based on the best evidence, that is the most likely explanation.
The conclusion from an analysis of multiple studies (A systematic review and meta-analysis of acupuncture in in vitro fertilisation.) came to the following conclusion…”Currently available literature does not provide sufficient evidence that adjuvant acupuncture improves IVF clinical pregnancy rate.”
This isn’t just 1 study. This is a systematic review of all the studies.
An excellent analysis of the results from IVF and acupuncture can be found here. The author is a doctor, skeptic and knows much more about acupuncture than me. He makes a compelling case which disputes/explains all the points you raise.
As far as the NIH goes, they have a department dedicated to studying CAM. Millions of dollars in research money has been spent resulting in exactly ZERO verified new treatments. Acupuncture is their best chance and time & time again they find when studies are done under controlled conditions results are consistent with the expected results of a placebo.
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