Comments on: Is There A Better Way To Get My Gray Hair Dyed? http://thebeautybrains.com/2009/05/16/is-there-a-better-way-to-get-my-gray-hair-dyed/ Cosmetic chemists answer your beauty product questions! We are a group of cosmetic scientists who understand what the chemicals used in cosmetics really do, how products are tested, and what all the advertising means. Sun, 21 Mar 2010 19:03:15 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: professorauntie http://thebeautybrains.com/2009/05/16/is-there-a-better-way-to-get-my-gray-hair-dyed/comment-page-1/#comment-47613 professorauntie Wed, 27 Jan 2010 20:00:16 +0000 http://thebeautybrains.com/?p=5276#comment-47613 Clairol--are you listening? I've been wanting to comment on Advanced Grey Solutions, but it seems the Clairol website doesn't have an email comment form, and I was too lazy to write a letter. But I wanted to ask Clairol to add more shades of AGS--specifically, a light ash or neutral brown. I'm caucasian, with long, dense, curly/frizzy, fine-strand hair, medium brown, about 40% grey at the roots, and all grey at the temples. My hair gets damaged easily by peroxide, even low amounts of it, so I was very interested in trying AGS. Though it's marketed for African-American women, I think curly/frizzy hair in general is usually more fragile than straight hair, so I pay attention to news about how to care for African American hair. Here's more about my experience with AGS: I've tried Advanced Grey Solutions a few times. The shade called Rich Dark Brown is lovely and natural-looking, but too dark for me. The shade called Light Golden Brown is also lovely, but it's really a brilliant copper color (at least on my hair), and that's not what I'm looking for. I had to dye over it. I'm afraid to mix the Rich Dark Brown and the Light Golden Brown to get a lighter brown, because I think the Light Golden Brown would add too much red. I have medium-light skin with a lot of yellow in it, and blue eyes, and I look horrible with red and orange shades of hair, but good with ash or neutral shades. I used the Rich Dark Brown a few times even though it's too dark, because it covers my grey well and leaves my hair feeling soft and smooth. But I don't like having unnaturally dark hair, so I've gone back to trying the regular Beautiful Collection from the beauty supply store, and also Clairol's Loving Care from the drugstore. I like these dyes because they're non-damaging and easy to use. But I have to use them every 2-3 weeks to keep the grey covered, and they never really stick to the part closest to my scalp. AGS did cover my grey better and for a longer time that regular Beautiful Collection, and better than other no-peroxide dyes. It also seemed to damage my hair less than demi-permanents+developer. After not using AGS for a few months, I can feel that the AGS did damage, or at least change, my hair. The newer hair (that has only been dyed with direct dyes such as regular Beautiful Collection) feels really strong and smooth, while the hair dyed with AGS feels rougher. But the hair at the ends that I dyed with peroxide feels much rougher and more fragile than the hair dyed with AGS. The part that I dyed with AGS never went back to grey, though the grey strands changed from dark brown to a yellowish-blond tint. The hair previously dyed with AGS takes up semi-permanent color better than my new hair does, so that's a plus. It seems like the "SynAIRgy" technology acts sort of like a very weak peroxide developer, as far as how much it damages hair. It really is a lot less damaging than any semi+developer dye that I've ever tried, but not quite as gentle as direct dyes. I think AGS is definitely a new kind of hair color. After I used AGS for a few months, my hair took on a reddish/orange cast. This happens after using any dye for a few months, I think because the red dye just lasts longer than the other colors, so it builds up in the hair. I decided to try to remove the old dye and start over. I used UnColor to remove the direct dyes, and Color Oops to remove the oxidative dyes. It didn't get all the old dye out (I'd probably have to use two boxes of Color Oops and/or do it two times), but it did remove the red shades and make my hair very shiny, springy and healthy-feeling. Removing the old dye also left my hair a funny color--ash brown with all kinds of strange highlights. When I went out into the sun, the part dyed with AGS had bright primary colored sparkles--red and yellow. This made me wonder if maybe AGS gets its intense, longer-lasting color by depositing brilliant colors deeper in the cortex, and more natural colors on the outside. (That idea is 100% conjecture, since I am not a cosmetic scientist, just a curious consumer.) Anyway, I didn't leave my hair in that color state for very long. I redyed it with regular Beautiful Collection in the Light Ash Brown color. I've also since tried Loving Care in the Light Brown color. Both shades look natural and good on me, and both seem to condition my hair for a week or so. I'll probably just keep on dyeing my hair every 3 weeks, try not to wash it too much so the dye will last longer, and every couple of months I'll remove the direct dye buildup with UnColor. That's the best plan I can come up with so far to keep my hair really healthy and less frizzy, avoid peroxide, cover most of the grey, and avoid an orange/red cast. It will be great when somebody comes up with a completely non-damaging grey-covering dye that lasts forever! Or--a much easier to use direct dye so that using it every 3 weeks or even more often wouldn't be such a pain. One idea I have for dye delivery would be as a mousse that goes through thick, curly hair easily. If it could be applied in the morning as a styling aid and left on all day, then rinsed out at night, that would also make it less of a pain. Or if it could be applied to dry hair, left on for up to an hour, then rinsed out, that would also make it easier. OK Clairol, if you're still listening to this long rambling post, thanks for making AGS, and keep up the good work for us grey-haired ladies. Clairol–are you listening? I’ve been wanting to comment on Advanced Grey Solutions, but it seems the Clairol website doesn’t have an email comment form, and I was too lazy to write a letter. But I wanted to ask Clairol to add more shades of AGS–specifically, a light ash or neutral brown. I’m caucasian, with long, dense, curly/frizzy, fine-strand hair, medium brown, about 40% grey at the roots, and all grey at the temples. My hair gets damaged easily by peroxide, even low amounts of it, so I was very interested in trying AGS. Though it’s marketed for African-American women, I think curly/frizzy hair in general is usually more fragile than straight hair, so I pay attention to news about how to care for African American hair.

Here’s more about my experience with AGS:
I’ve tried Advanced Grey Solutions a few times. The shade called Rich Dark Brown is lovely and natural-looking, but too dark for me. The shade called Light Golden Brown is also lovely, but it’s really a brilliant copper color (at least on my hair), and that’s not what I’m looking for. I had to dye over it. I’m afraid to mix the Rich Dark Brown and the Light Golden Brown to get a lighter brown, because I think the Light Golden Brown would add too much red. I have medium-light skin with a lot of yellow in it, and blue eyes, and I look horrible with red and orange shades of hair, but good with ash or neutral shades. I used the Rich Dark Brown a few times even though it’s too dark, because it covers my grey well and leaves my hair feeling soft and smooth. But I don’t like having unnaturally dark hair, so I’ve gone back to trying the regular Beautiful Collection from the beauty supply store, and also Clairol’s Loving Care from the drugstore. I like these dyes because they’re non-damaging and easy to use. But I have to use them every 2-3 weeks to keep the grey covered, and they never really stick to the part closest to my scalp.

AGS did cover my grey better and for a longer time that regular Beautiful Collection, and better than other no-peroxide dyes. It also seemed to damage my hair less than demi-permanents+developer. After not using AGS for a few months, I can feel that the AGS did damage, or at least change, my hair. The newer hair (that has only been dyed with direct dyes such as regular Beautiful Collection) feels really strong and smooth, while the hair dyed with AGS feels rougher. But the hair at the ends that I dyed with peroxide feels much rougher and more fragile than the hair dyed with AGS.

The part that I dyed with AGS never went back to grey, though the grey strands changed from dark brown to a yellowish-blond tint. The hair previously dyed with AGS takes up semi-permanent color better than my new hair does, so that’s a plus. It seems like the “SynAIRgy” technology acts sort of like a very weak peroxide developer, as far as how much it damages hair. It really is a lot less damaging than any semi+developer dye that I’ve ever tried, but not quite as gentle as direct dyes. I think AGS is definitely a new kind of hair color.

After I used AGS for a few months, my hair took on a reddish/orange cast. This happens after using any dye for a few months, I think because the red dye just lasts longer than the other colors, so it builds up in the hair. I decided to try to remove the old dye and start over. I used UnColor to remove the direct dyes, and Color Oops to remove the oxidative dyes. It didn’t get all the old dye out (I’d probably have to use two boxes of Color Oops and/or do it two times), but it did remove the red shades and make my hair very shiny, springy and healthy-feeling. Removing the old dye also left my hair a funny color–ash brown with all kinds of strange highlights. When I went out into the sun, the part dyed with AGS had bright primary colored sparkles–red and yellow. This made me wonder if maybe AGS gets its intense, longer-lasting color by depositing brilliant colors deeper in the cortex, and more natural colors on the outside. (That idea is 100% conjecture, since I am not a cosmetic scientist, just a curious consumer.) Anyway, I didn’t leave my hair in that color state for very long. I redyed it with regular Beautiful Collection in the Light Ash Brown color. I’ve also since tried Loving Care in the Light Brown color. Both shades look natural and good on me, and both seem to condition my hair for a week or so. I’ll probably just keep on dyeing my hair every 3 weeks, try not to wash it too much so the dye will last longer, and every couple of months I’ll remove the direct dye buildup with UnColor. That’s the best plan I can come up with so far to keep my hair really healthy and less frizzy, avoid peroxide, cover most of the grey, and avoid an orange/red cast.

It will be great when somebody comes up with a completely non-damaging grey-covering dye that lasts forever! Or–a much easier to use direct dye so that using it every 3 weeks or even more often wouldn’t be such a pain. One idea I have for dye delivery would be as a mousse that goes through thick, curly hair easily. If it could be applied in the morning as a styling aid and left on all day, then rinsed out at night, that would also make it less of a pain. Or if it could be applied to dry hair, left on for up to an hour, then rinsed out, that would also make it easier.

OK Clairol, if you’re still listening to this long rambling post, thanks for making AGS, and keep up the good work for us grey-haired ladies.

]]> By: vlizzle http://thebeautybrains.com/2009/05/16/is-there-a-better-way-to-get-my-gray-hair-dyed/comment-page-1/#comment-41848 vlizzle Sun, 13 Sep 2009 02:12:05 +0000 http://thebeautybrains.com/?p=5276#comment-41848 I am saddened by the fact that the color of your hair has so much impact on your profession. I am currently unemployed, 50 and a bit gray and I was advised to color my hair to look younger and get a job. No way, take me as I am, my gray hair and all. I am saddened by the fact that the color of your hair has so much impact on your profession. I am currently unemployed, 50 and a bit gray and I was advised to color my hair to look younger and get a job. No way, take me as I am, my gray hair and all.

]]> By: Lauren http://thebeautybrains.com/2009/05/16/is-there-a-better-way-to-get-my-gray-hair-dyed/comment-page-1/#comment-41680 Lauren Sun, 06 Sep 2009 16:28:39 +0000 http://thebeautybrains.com/?p=5276#comment-41680 I am a licensed cosmetologist. Everyone's responses seem very kind. It's nice that everyone is trying to reach out to people with trouble covering grey, but you all lack the actual scientific information and training to even begin to evaluate these questions. Hair color does not "stick" to the hair. The reason grey is hard to cover is because it is extremely resistant. What happens is, as you get older and your hair starts turning, the cuticle (outside most layer of hair) begins to shrink-releasing all the melatonin in the hair shaft. This is why hair loses it's color, and why color is so hard to put back in. Essentially-there's no room. This is also why your grey hair feels drier/wirey/ or starts to change texture. Think of it like this: when you have a plastic ziploc bag full of water and sealed tight, it's plump and big. If you were to take that bag and squeeze as hard as you can and drain all the water, you are left with an empty, skinny, raggedy, prune-looking bag. That is your grey hair. What you need to know is that grey hair is resistant bottom line-but not all grey hairs are the same. You could be all grey, color all your hair evenly, and you still might have some grey that proudly stand out when it's done processing. The only only only thing you can do is re-color it. Essentially, to be able to fix this problem, you would need to use a product that can penetrate through all layers of the hair to insert the color molecules into the cortex where it will not escape. One method that I think actually works better than just putting color over grey, is lightening it first. Yes, the more you lighten your hair, the more it is damaged-but-if you use appropriate products and protein enriched (because that is mostly all your hair is, protein, specifically keratin) conditioners and never ever lighten over an already lightened area, you will be ok-but lightener interestingly enough expands the cuticle. It swells the hair shaft, opening up the outer layer to accept more of anything that wants to go into the hair. Word of caution: since the lightener expands the cuticle, this means anything ANYTHING can enter-including pollution in the air. Also, since grey hair is loss of pigmentation, it's not a sure thing of the effects of afterlightening. Although, since you are not concerned about the color of your hair after you lighten because you will be covering it with whatever color you want, this is ok. And as I just stated, once you lighten, you redeposit color into the hair shaft with whatever color you want. This allows more color to set in the hair. One thing to keep in mind though, is since the lightener opened the cuticle, more color that you deposit afterwards CAN seep back out of the hair when you rinse it. So it is best to use something called a filler. Basically all this is is mixing extra developer/water/or color in so more of it will stay when rinsed. I do not by any means expect you all to go out and by these things and use them at home. I do expect you do go to a salon. If you try these things at home, you will inevitably ruin your hair and HAVE to then go to a salon to fix it which is more expensive than just going in the first place-not to mention very hard on your hair and time consuming and with unsure results. I do not want to be held liable if women try these things at home. Another thing to keep in mind that most people do not understand or realize is that boxed hair color from the store is not effective for everyone. Depending on how light or dark your hair is and how light or dark you need to go, yields what strength developer you should use. With that in mind...boxed hair color doesn't give you multiple bottles of developer to cater to your specific hair type, do they? NO. So do you really think that someone with blonde hair level 9 and someone with browner hair level 6 are going to get the same results from the same box? NO. This is why you need to go to a salon. I'm sorry, I know the economy is bad and it can be expensive, but it's the best thing, that's why we go to school for it. You wouldn't perform your own medical surgeries at home to save money (I know hair color is not as important as health...but it can be very detrimental to your health if you do it wrong at home). Bottomline, whatever you choose to do, now you UNDERSTAND the cause, effect, and methods to fix your very common problem. So if you have someone else do your hair, you will understand what they are doing (because many stylists don't explain which leaves me completely beside myself) and you can ask more intelligent questions and have more of a say in the consultation process. GOOD LUCK LADIES! I am a licensed cosmetologist. Everyone’s responses seem very kind. It’s nice that everyone is trying to reach out to people with trouble covering grey, but you all lack the actual scientific information and training to even begin to evaluate these questions.
Hair color does not “stick” to the hair.
The reason grey is hard to cover is because it is extremely resistant. What happens is, as you get older and your hair starts turning, the cuticle (outside most layer of hair) begins to shrink-releasing all the melatonin in the hair shaft. This is why hair loses it’s color, and why color is so hard to put back in. Essentially-there’s no room. This is also why your grey hair feels drier/wirey/ or starts to change texture. Think of it like this: when you have a plastic ziploc bag full of water and sealed tight, it’s plump and big. If you were to take that bag and squeeze as hard as you can and drain all the water, you are left with an empty, skinny, raggedy, prune-looking bag. That is your grey hair.
What you need to know is that grey hair is resistant bottom line-but not all grey hairs are the same. You could be all grey, color all your hair evenly, and you still might have some grey that proudly stand out when it’s done processing. The only only only thing you can do is re-color it.
Essentially, to be able to fix this problem, you would need to use a product that can penetrate through all layers of the hair to insert the color molecules into the cortex where it will not escape. One method that I think actually works better than just putting color over grey, is lightening it first. Yes, the more you lighten your hair, the more it is damaged-but-if you use appropriate products and protein enriched (because that is mostly all your hair is, protein, specifically keratin) conditioners and never ever lighten over an already lightened area, you will be ok-but lightener interestingly enough expands the cuticle. It swells the hair shaft, opening up the outer layer to accept more of anything that wants to go into the hair.
Word of caution: since the lightener expands the cuticle, this means anything ANYTHING can enter-including pollution in the air. Also, since grey hair is loss of pigmentation, it’s not a sure thing of the effects of afterlightening. Although, since you are not concerned about the color of your hair after you lighten because you will be covering it with whatever color you want, this is ok.
And as I just stated, once you lighten, you redeposit color into the hair shaft with whatever color you want. This allows more color to set in the hair. One thing to keep in mind though, is since the lightener opened the cuticle, more color that you deposit afterwards CAN seep back out of the hair when you rinse it. So it is best to use something called a filler. Basically all this is is mixing extra developer/water/or color in so more of it will stay when rinsed.

I do not by any means expect you all to go out and by these things and use them at home. I do expect you do go to a salon. If you try these things at home, you will inevitably ruin your hair and HAVE to then go to a salon to fix it which is more expensive than just going in the first place-not to mention very hard on your hair and time consuming and with unsure results. I do not want to be held liable if women try these things at home.
Another thing to keep in mind that most people do not understand or realize is that boxed hair color from the store is not effective for everyone. Depending on how light or dark your hair is and how light or dark you need to go, yields what strength developer you should use. With that in mind…boxed hair color doesn’t give you multiple bottles of developer to cater to your specific hair type, do they? NO. So do you really think that someone with blonde hair level 9 and someone with browner hair level 6 are going to get the same results from the same box? NO. This is why you need to go to a salon. I’m sorry, I know the economy is bad and it can be expensive, but it’s the best thing, that’s why we go to school for it. You wouldn’t perform your own medical surgeries at home to save money (I know hair color is not as important as health…but it can be very detrimental to your health if you do it wrong at home). Bottomline, whatever you choose to do, now you UNDERSTAND the cause, effect, and methods to fix your very common problem. So if you have someone else do your hair, you will understand what they are doing (because many stylists don’t explain which leaves me completely beside myself) and you can ask more intelligent questions and have more of a say in the consultation process.
GOOD LUCK LADIES!

]]> By: Sarah http://thebeautybrains.com/2009/05/16/is-there-a-better-way-to-get-my-gray-hair-dyed/comment-page-1/#comment-40490 Sarah Wed, 29 Jul 2009 04:10:29 +0000 http://thebeautybrains.com/?p=5276#comment-40490 More on hair color categories...I kind of rushed my explanation. http://killerstrands.blogspot.com/2009/07/crib-colorists-consider-crazy-hair.html More on hair color categories…I kind of rushed my explanation.

http://killerstrands.blogspot.com/2009/07/crib-colorists-consider-crazy-hair.html

]]> By: Sarah http://thebeautybrains.com/2009/05/16/is-there-a-better-way-to-get-my-gray-hair-dyed/comment-page-1/#comment-40489 Sarah Wed, 29 Jul 2009 04:08:37 +0000 http://thebeautybrains.com/?p=5276#comment-40489 This is very interesting. I am not totally convinced for sure. First of all, the verbage that they used isnt really correct . I am not sure why box dye companies don't use the same words that most professsionals do. Semi-permanent hair color has large molecules, no ammonia, and coats the hair shaft. Demi-permanate has slightly smaller molecules (not a direct dye, unlike semi), no ammonia, a more "stains" the cuticle and sometimes sits right underneath it. However, PERMANENT hair color is indirect dye (small molecules), has ammonia to open the cuticle to allow the hair molecules in, and developer to activate the ammonia and lift some of the natural hair color. So anyway, that was a rant. I am glad this product is working for people but it still seems a little "off" to me. First, I have no idea how you would go about mixing a demi-permanent and permanent into one product. So I will give them the benefit of the doubt there. But a large molecule "wedging under" the cuticle? What does it have arms or something? If there is no ammonia to "open the cuticle" then how can any color get in there unless your hair happens to be porous? As far as the air activating the color. Ok, not sure how that works but once again, maybe...However, why don't any other color lines use this technology. It seems like it would be less damaging than hydrogen peroxide (developer) so why hasn't anyone else jumped on this train?? Ok, so this might work, I could just be wrong. But it sounds like to me they are just selling a semi-permanent color that has twice the amount of pigment in it to help cover gray. Which most "covering gray" color lines do. Use double the pigment to assure coverage...which is why it probably comes out a little dark too. Ok. That was a novel. Sorry. This is very interesting. I am not totally convinced for sure. First of all, the verbage that they used isnt really correct . I am not sure why box dye companies don’t use the same words that most professsionals do. Semi-permanent hair color has large molecules, no ammonia, and coats the hair shaft. Demi-permanate has slightly smaller molecules (not a direct dye, unlike semi), no ammonia, a more “stains” the cuticle and sometimes sits right underneath it. However, PERMANENT hair color is indirect dye (small molecules), has ammonia to open the cuticle to allow the hair molecules in, and developer to activate the ammonia and lift some of the natural hair color.

So anyway, that was a rant. I am glad this product is working for people but it still seems a little “off” to me.

First, I have no idea how you would go about mixing a demi-permanent and permanent into one product. So I will give them the benefit of the doubt there.

But a large molecule “wedging under” the cuticle? What does it have arms or something? If there is no ammonia to “open the cuticle” then how can any color get in there unless your hair happens to be porous?

As far as the air activating the color. Ok, not sure how that works but once again, maybe…However, why don’t any other color lines use this technology. It seems like it would be less damaging than hydrogen peroxide (developer) so why hasn’t anyone else jumped on this train??

Ok, so this might work, I could just be wrong. But it sounds like to me they are just selling a semi-permanent color that has twice the amount of pigment in it to help cover gray.

Which most “covering gray” color lines do. Use double the pigment to assure coverage…which is why it probably comes out a little dark too.

Ok. That was a novel. Sorry.

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