Does coating sunscreen nano-particles get rid of all side effects?



  • edited October 2016
    Paula Begoun had very problematic skin as a child. really awful if you listen to her stories.
    anyways.... that's what started her passion in reading ingredients, medical journals and starting the company. the "Cosmetics cop"

    i haven't used much of PC products but i am a fan of hers.

    I'm breaking into PC 2% BHA after my stridex

    i don't agree with her ALL the time but i do MOST of the time. And even if they make an opinion, they will back it up with "science".

    unlike her. i have less sensitive skin, so lavender essential oils are A OK for me.

  • Thank you for the photos Peter! I doubt I have any sunscreens that u guys want to see the swatches of. :D

    I remember swatching the Coola sunscreen some years back and found it too white. Guess I should hit Nordstrom again... 
  • edited October 2016
    We have a Mecca and Sephora here for international sunscreen.
    i suggest you guys look into this 

    i tried the "fairest" color in the store and it was a dream (Covered blemishes) and no white cast

    Paraben-free and SPF 50+ UVA/UVB Broad Spectrum, Physical Only, Non-Chemical Sunscreen. Developed with leading plastic surgeons.

    they have 5 shades. not greasy at all.

    TITANIUM DIOXIDE 9.0%, ZINC OXIDE 6.3%, Water, Snail Secretion Filtrate, Butylene Glycol, Phenyl Trimethicone, Dimethicone, Butylene Glycol Dicaprylate/Dicaprate, Orbignya Oleifera Seed Oil, Butyloctyl Salicylate, Cetyl PEG/PPG-10/1 Dimethicone, Cyclopentasiloxane, Cyclohexasiloxane, Magnesium Sulfate, Polyglyceryl-4 Isostearate, Dimethicone/Vinyl Dimethicone Crosspolymer, Aluminum Hydroxide, Hexyl Laurate, Stearic Acid, Calcium Stearate, Caprylyl Glycol, Triethoxycaprylylsilane, Ethylhexylglycerin, Phenoxyethanol, Citrus Medica Limonum (Lemon) Peel Oil, Tocopheryl Acetate, Sorbitan Isostearate, Citrus Aurantium Bergamia (Bergamot) Fruit Oil, 1,2-Hexanediol, Disodium EDTA, Citrus aurantium dulcis (orange) peel oil, Citrus Aurantifolia (Lime) Oil, Vitis Vinifera (Grape) Seed Oil, Punica Granatum Seed Oil, Pinus Sylvestris Leaf Oil, Persea Gratissima (Avocado) Oil, Niacinamide, Citrus Grandis (Grapefruit) Peel Oil, Anthemis Nobilis Flower Water, Lactobacillus/Honeysuckle Flower/Licorice Root/Morus Alba Root/Pueraria Lobata Root/Schizandra Chinensis Fruit/Scutellaria Baicalensis Root/Sophora Japonica Flower Extract Ferment Filtrate, Perfluorohexane, Olea Europaea (Olive) Leaf Extract, Glycerin, Eucalyptus Globulus Leaf Oil, Cholesteryl, Camellia Sinensis Leaf Extract, Chrysanthemum Indicum flower Extract, Pueraria Lobata Root Extract, Perfluorodecalin, Morus Alba Fruit Extract, Magnolia Kobus Bark Extract, Glycine Soja (Soybean) Sprout Extract, Diospyros Kaki Leaf Extract, Cinnamomum Cassia Bark Extract, Artemisia Princeps Leaf Extract, Pentafluoropropane, Curcuma Longa (Turmeric) Root Extract, Steareth-20, Hydrolyzed Hyaluronic Acid, Colloidal Oatmeal, Hydrolyzed Silk, Citric Acid, Sodium Benzoate, Potassium sorbate, Aloe Barbadensis Leaf Extract, N-Hydroxysuccinimide, Hydrolyzed Collagen, Caprylhydroxamic Acid, Tocopherol, Thiamine HCl, Riboflavin, Retinyl Palmitate, Pantothenic Acid, Palmitoyl Oligopeptide, Niacin, Folic Acid, Chrysin, Carnitine HCl, Biotin, Ascorbic Acid, Palmitoyl Tetrapeptide-7, Chlorhexidine Digluconate. May Contain: Iron Oxides (CI 77492, CI 77491, CI 77499).
  • edited October 2016
    @Peter oh no.. all too white.

    thanks for sharing! i can't imagine how white it would be on your face!
  • I should look into this! I tried the Clinique's cityblock SPF25 and it looked greasy.
  • I like Paula's Choice as well, but I don't always agree with her, so I think we feel the same about her..

    Lavender essential oil doesn't have to be problematic in the sense that it might be irritating, but its more about the fact that increases hyperpigmentation. And it also has phyto-oestrogenic activity. Look for example at:

    Dermatotoxicoloy by Zhai, page 593 (benzyl salicylate, Ylang-ylang oil, cananga oil, jasmin, hydroxycitronellal, sandalwood oil, lavender oil, geranium oil show hydrophic degreneration of the basal layer, pigment incontinence and little evidence of inflammation). 

    Cosmetics and Dermatologic Problems and Solutions, by Zoe Draelos, page 139

  • edited October 2016

    In the style of Peter's shares, just took. not much white cast as you can see my natural skintone before and after. Quite a thick layer too.

    that much sunscreen i applied to hand and halfway up (before elbows)
  • Peter,

    yes! I actually dot lavender oil (neat) on my skin if I have pimples etc. Instant healing. Best thing I ever discovered (although I think not everyone can take lavender oil neat on their skin).

    That Babo looks good!!!! I can't wait for your samples man. hahahaha
    Btw, 'babo' in korean means idiot (my korean friend taught me this) hahaha.
  • The Babo Botanicals doesn't look white at all, or at least on your skin ;-) So it has to be micronized at least, and some of the particles must fall in the nano-range. You can't get a sunscreen with 22.5% non-nano zinc oxide look clear on skin otherwise.

    Zinc Oxide 22.5% (non-nano particles), Water (Aqua), Glycerin, Caprylic Capric Triglyceride, Sunflower (Helianthus Annuus) Seed Oil*, Hydrolyzed Jojoba Esters, Glyceryl Stearate, Methylcellulose, Stearic Acid, Rose Hip (Rosa Canina) Fruit Oil*, Green Tea( Camelia Sinensis) Extract*, Shea (Butyrospermum Parkii) Butter*, Apple (Pyrus Malus) Fruit Oil, Xanthan Gum, Caprylyl Glycol, Ethylhexylglycerin, Phenethyl Alcohol. * 
  • If you want to use it for pimples you may have a look at tea tree oil, that has some studies showing it works against acne. But really you don't want these plant extracts in your sunscreen, it will cause collagen damage and increase pigmentation...
  • Got it! I will try to avoid sunscreens with plant extracts. I can always get my antioxidants from separate serums. Thanks! :)

    (My friend swears by tea tree oil too)
  • edited October 2016
    I agree with Peter Tea Tree oil (aussie again) is good for pimples. I tried a lavender pillow spray on my skin... no issues. no issues with diluted lavender and i love the scent. i added it in my diy toner. Will use at night only.

    @peter i think you're right. it is definitiely on the "small" sized of the scale. hey but it is FDA approved. it still "whitens" a little, but not much at all. maybe half a shade? doesn't budge and feels like nothing on.
  • I shall swatch the Babo on my skin when I get it. I'm NC25 so thats about light-medium. If I can take it, I think Peter should be able to use it with no problems. (Im asian so I'd have yellow tone)
  • Some plant extracts are okay, and some you really need to avoid ;-)
    - Evodia Rutaecarpa Fruit Extract
    - Licorice Extract
    - Green tea Extract
    - willow herb extract etc

    But what you need to avoid/minimize (especially in sunscreens):
    - oxybenzone
    - ylang-ylang
    -citrus extracts
    - benzyl salicylate
    -sandalwood oil
    - geraniol
    - cinnamic alcohol
    - coumarin
    - sage extract
    - rosemary oil
    - and there are many more (these ingredients simply contain compounds like terpenes, champhor aldehydes etc that especially under UV-light will break down collagen, increase inflammation in skin, and for preciousia increase hyperpigmentation).
  • Preciousia!

    That was speedy! Thank you very much! <3

    Thanks for the list! I don't think my skincare/sunscreen products contain these extracts although I do use a shampoo that has rosemary extract (which is diff from oil). Maybe it was the citrus extracts in the Biore sunscreen that made my skin red/irritated.........
  • edited October 2016

    What is the list to avoid for?  i thought licorice root is good for the pigmentation.

    willow herb = salicylic acid. no no

    i shall remember that list. how handy...

    i do noticed that some "unstable" antioxidants is no good too for day use... they can actually break down and oxidise on the skin dermis... does that make sense?
  • edited October 2016
    i am using the Mad Hippie Vitamin C serum

    Ingredients: (Actives in bold): Deionized water, vitamin C (sodium ascorbyl phosphate), alkyl benzoate, vegetable glycerin, water, glycerin, sodium levulinate, sodium anisate, clary sage (salvia sclarea), grapefruit (citrus grandis), hyaluronic acid, amorphophallus konjac root powder, aloe barbadensis leaf, vitamin E (tocotrienol), ferulic acid, chamomile flower extract (recutita matricaria), sodium phytate, xanthan gum, hydroxyethylcellulose.

    i asked them regarding the grapefruit ingredient and they replied "Our Vitamin C Serum does not contain grapefruit peel (or grapefruit essential oil) which contains bergapten, a phototoxic agent found in the peel of many citrus fruits. It is safe for daytime use and is great for increasing the photoprotective qualities of your SPF during the day as it contains lots of antioxidants that ward off photodamage."

    do you think it is ok to use in the day?
  • Does the Mad Hippie works for you in lightening pigmentation? As in, sufficiently effective? 
  • edited October 2016
    @escherichia it brightens and lightens but nothing miraculous. good for maintenance as i had used very good quality actives under my derm's products before. It's as good as it gets for a Vitamin C derivative. It is better than using an oxidised L Ascorbic Acid serum.

    for pigmentation, you really need an arsenal. the 5 essentials i told you about. The synergy of the 5 is what makes my pigmentation lighten.

    i don't like silicones in my products as i tend to layer a lot of products and don't like the occlusive quality of silicone which prevents the actives in the next layer from getting absorbed. i like that this product is compatible with my other products. i bought 2 bottles when they had a sale last. so will be locked in for 6 months of Mad Hippie Vitamin C serum :) Will report long term usage later on. i saved 44% from RRP :x
  • Please do report back on the map hippie serum. :)

  • @preciousia
    The ingredients are just some examples of good extracts (licorice, willow herb) and bad extracts/oil (rosemary, lemon peel, ylang-ylang). But really there are dozens, there are many good plant extracts with antioxidant properties, but the list of irritating ingredients is even longer. Most of the times the ingredient dictionary of Paula's Choice rates the ingredients quite well, comparing to what I've read in literature.

    I don't know which parts the Mad Hippie serum uses, but most of the times they do use peel extracts/essential oils and they do contains some volatile compounds. Usually if I'm not sure what has been used I just skip the product. Downside is that most Vitamin C serums use high amounts of Propylene Glycol and Citrus Extracts. At the moment I use a Vitamin C Serum with 5% Ascorbyl Tetraisopalmitate and 5% Niacinamide, 2% Licorice Extract and 1% Tocopherol. I know it isn't a very high percentage Vitamin C, but the products doesn't contain irritants and has some other antioxidants.
  • edited October 2016
    escherichia  In Lieu of my long term review. I refer you to see the mad number of good feedback on iHerb 

    over 600 reviews, 84% voted 4 and 5 out of 5
    and 62% voted 5 out of 5

    and some reviews are stupid too, they give it a poor rating for not "bleaching" their skintone.
  • @Peter

    Just to clarify, this list is good?

    - Evodia Rutaecarpa Fruit Extract
    - Licorice Extract
    - Green tea Extract
    - willow herb extract etc

    during summer. i will swap and use The Ordinary Vitamin C serums (i bought 4 kinds of vitamin c) and also Melano Vitamin C serums
  • i was quite concerned about this products i asked you on another thread
    Zinc Oxide 3.6%...Sunscreen
    Titanium Dioxide 2.8%...Sunscreen
    Inactive Ingredients
    Aloe Barbadensis Leaf Juice¹, Argania Spinosa Kernel Oil¹, Coconut Alkanes, Caprylic/Capric Triglyceride, Glycerin¹, Polyglyceryl-2 Sesquioleate, Limonene, Polyglyceryl-3 Ricineoleate, Saccharomyces/Xylinum/Black Tea Ferment¹, Sodium Chloride, Butyrospermum Parkii (Shea) Butter¹, Citrus Aurantium Bergamia (Bergamot) Fruit Oil, Citrus Aurantium Dulcis (Orange) Peel Oil, Citrus Limon (Lemon) Peel Oil, Rosa Canina Seed Oil¹, Camellia Sinensis Leaf Extract (White Tea)¹, Citrus Limon (Lemon) Peel Extract (Lemon Bioflavonoids)¹, Tocopheryl Acetate, Alumina, Aqua (Purified Water), Ascorbyl Glucoside, Calcium Ascorbate, Calcium Carbonate, Coco-Caprylate/Caprate, Polyhydroxystearic Acid, Stearic Acid, Alcohol¹, Benzyl Alcohol, Potassium Sorbate, Sodium Benzoate, Citral, Linalool.
    (¹) Certified Organic Ingredient
    Product is preserved with Sodium Benzoate

    so much citrus! dangerous to use during the day?

  • @Preciousia

    Yes the following 4 actives are good ones, but this is just a small list there are so many:
    - Evodia Rutaecarpa Fruit Extract
    - Licorice Extract
    - Green tea Extract
    - willow herb extract etc

    Indeed the Avalon Intense Defense Sheer Moisture SPF10 contains some problematic ingredients, like Limonene, Bergamot Fruit Oil, Orange Peel Oil, Lemon Peel Oil, Lemon Peel Extract, Benzyl Alcohol, Citral and Linalool.
  • edited October 2016

    Avalon has not replied to me. I doubt i will purchase any more of their products, this was the first to try only. 

    @Peter thanks for clarifying. i was confused. Is willow herb extract etc good to use in the day too? I thought it is the botanical version of salicylic acid who will exfoliate the skin? technically not photo sensitive but i have experienced BHA making me more photo sensitive.

  • @preciousia
    Applying BHA in the morning or evening shouldn't make much difference, your skin gets more sensitive to the sun because you remove the top most layer of your skin. Those dead skin cells may clog pores and make your skin look dull, but it also protects your skin from UV-radiation to some extend. For good or bad plant extracts I would say have a look at the ingredient dictionary of Paula's Choice, thus far most of her ratings agree with what I've found in literature. She only overrates sunscreen actives in my opinion, knowing that most filters are not approved in america it is a logical decision of course.
  • Thank you Peter, you have confirmed my thoughts too. I am going to reduce acid use, and cut Tretinoin use in summer. I am keeping my old skin as protection. UV is 9 total yikes!

  • Transdermal absorption of Zn, in urine, blood

    As observed in a larger outdoor trial following this pilot study but with a different formulation and with UV exposure: values of (68)Zn in blood continued to increase beyond the 5 day application phase with the highest measurement at 14 days after the first application; variable amounts of the (68)Zn tracer were observed in urine; and the amounts of extra Zn added to blood were small and indicate very low levels of absorption (minimal estimate <0.01% of the applied dose) through the skin
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