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Anti-EWG
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I went in search of critiques of the environmental working group (EWG), whose scaremongering leads to a lot of posts here. I was surprised not to find mention of them on either quackwatch or the skeptics. I had never heard of American Council on Science and Health (should I have?), but anyway, their site is chock-full of stuff about the EWG, including this from back in 04, which I thought might be enjoyable reading for some here on the forums. http://www.acsh.org/factsfears/newsID.381/news_detail.asp I also liked this one a lot, http://www.acsh.org/factsfears/newsID.87/news_detail.asp
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sarahf,
thank you for posting this...i really detest EWG and others of their ilk, as i guess you know from my one post about fearmongering, as well as wondering why people seem to enjoy finding things to be afraid about. i'm kind of surprised, myself, that quackwatch hasn't weighed in them, though i'm sure they're a little busy about now! one personal moment i recall...i was working in retail(not cosmetics oriented) and struck up a conversation with a customer...somehow we got talking about skincare. she went on about how she used her 'natural' things as you just can't trust what's put in skincare. she then informed me they put antifreeze in products then looked at me with the most sincerely angrily befuddled expression and said "why?! why would they do that?!". i knew at that moment she was most probably making reference to propylene glycol. i so wanted to take time to explain to her what was wrong with her statement but i held back. mainly because i really didn't have time to get into that kind of discussion, and i didn't want to make a customer 'feel stupid'..but i do kind of regret letting her walk away thinking the cosmetics industry is putting 'poisons' in our skincare. most of all i find it a shame because there really is all sorts of nice skin care out there to play with, some that does what it says, a lot that doesn't, but she'll be sticking to her homemade avocado masks out of fear. i'm a self confessed skincare ho and i enjoy getting to play with different products! anyway...sorry for the ramble...that incident just came to mind when i saw "EWG"! lol! thanks again! -
@ vanyel5...what you said....ditto!
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Vanyel,
In regard to the customer you mentioned, you may have been better off staying silent, it's hard to say. My experience has been that some (although certainly not all) of those in the fear camp are not easily persuaded to change their beliefs. Witness some of the commentary on the blog posts, for example. There are many potential reasons for the entrenchment of people's beliefs about such issues. I have personally observed that people who are already disposed to be scared or even paranoid in general may be more likely to believe misinformation that fits with their personal disposition. Also--she may even have been referring to ethylene glycol. Many things show up in tiny trace amounts as byproducts of the manufacturing process or contaminants, etc. Nowadays these chemicals can be detected in such miniscule (and entirely harmless) amounts that organizations like EWG can do a study and "strike gold" (in a fearmongering sense)--we did it! We found antifreeze in your moisturizer! Yay! Another publication! We found a little, teeny bit of antifreeze in little puppies' urine and saliva! It comes from your moisturizer! Do you want little puppies to have antifreeze in their little helpless bodies? Well, then--throw away that moisturizer! Okay, I'm getting carried away now. I can stop. Really. And, no, they haven't studied little puppies. It's usually something like adolescent girls with "endocrine disruptors" in trace amounts from sunscreen, threatening to mess with their developing reproductive systems and give them all manner of cancer. -
But that cancer can of course (according to fearmongering "doctors" gone awry like Joe Mercola) be easily cured with baking soda--it's just that the medical establishment has a conspiracy to suppress this easy, natural cure because their livelihood depends on more expensive cancer treatments. So all those nice-seeming doctors you know? Well, they'd really just rather make a buck than save lives. NOT!
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sarahf,
LOVE your comments! :) for me, it was really that i wasn't in a position to 'correct' her, no matter if she followed my train of thought...i didn't want to turn a customer off to my store, which had nothing to do with cosmetics. were i at, i don't know, starbucks, and that subject came up, i'd be quite happy to explain my thoughts and understandings, though it could be akin to talking to a brick wall. i think that i recall reading, at that point in time, that propylene glycol was being likened to ethylene glycol as if they were the same...for some reason i recall some drama about that ingredient at that point in time(five to seven years ago)...since i'm getting older i can't access the memory banks quite so efficiently to tell you for certain why i'm sure of that. but along with what you're saying, many things show up in our own bodies in trace amounts as byproducts of bodily processes...EWG forgets the whole dose aspect...yep...arsenic is poisonous and can kill, almonds contain trace amounts of arsenic...uh oh! better forget eating almonds!
i guess i have to confess that i was a person who fell for all sorts of conspiracies and fear mongerers.....because of a chronic illness i became vegan, took supplements out the wazoo, and anytime i read anything that sounded halfway intelligent suggesting how i'm 'poisoning' myself i did like kerence and went into a fear spiral making sure i wasn't including it in my daily regimens. now i'm back to being an ominvore(being a vegan ain't cheap, for one), i still do take supplements, but don't expect 'magic', but any article warning me how i am killing myself is viewed with a lot of scrutiny...i look for real facts..real data, and i trust my doctor ( who knew he wasn't really a pharma shill!?) . results? i'm just as fine now as i was then..maybe not as thin(being a vegan can keep one quite svelte! :) ). anyway, since i feel so disgusted with being taken in by my vulnerability during my coping time, i feel the need to guide others...wow, sorry, wordy! i guess i was trying to say i can almost identify with my 'customer' at the time, and feel frustrated because i want to save them from later feeling stupid for being duped by people who are counting on you being scared! i don't delude myself that i could have changed her mind, but as long as i share what i've learned i feel i've done something...so that's why i really regret letting her walk off, though i was trying to think of my actual position.
your response to my post was great, though! i'm not sure how much humor you were injecting, but i did chuckle...i think i connect well with irony and sarcasm! i really appreciate being able to share my thoughts about this particular subject and to have others who get it! usually i feel like the outcast when i say sulfates aren't evil and parabens are pretty darn safe..oh, and silicones really treat my skin nicely! i don't mind thoughtful debate, but i really hate when the only arguments one have are based on posts to the like of EWG-ish comments on the internet. okay...enough of me for now!
@ lindygirl1960
thank you for the ditto! -
sarahf,
okay, i wrote so long that i only got your other note...let's not even go there with mr mercola....the world is low in vitamin d3 so here, buy one of my tanning beds to get your vitamin d up! what?! and yeah...baking soda...as if our body doesn't have a fantastic maintenance system that keeps our pH within certain limits no matter what we ingest! yep, have that nice alkaline diet to cure your cancer(or autism), you don't think your body is making compensations to keep its systems in check? huh? i LOVE getting my daily emails from mercola telling me what to be scared of today! yes, i'm subscribed, i have to say i almost never read anything but the blurb in the email and shake my head and feel disgusted! by the way...do you subscribe or read scienceblogs? i receive regular blog updates from 'orac' at respectful insolence...he's such a poet when it comes to clearing up these myths...and his heavy handed disdain and sarcasm are delicious! -
I came across respectful insolence in my internet travels recently--and yes, I probably caught the sardonic style of humor from them. I love skeptical geeks:) So yes, I meant to be humorous, in a skeptic-geek way. I admire you for being willing to correct people even if you think you might be talking to a brick wall. I can do it on the internet, but face-to-face, I'm a bit of a wuss about getting into a tangle with someone who might be really upset to have their views challenged. I do it, though--I just size people up first to get a feel for how receptive they might be. Many people really are willing to hear the information you have to share, but sometimes I just get a feel that someone will go off on me if I try to offer a different view, so I just nod and listen to their paranoid rant. That might be selling some people short, but I'm just scared of confrontation (except on the internet).
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@ Sarah...actually you are being prudent about sizing people up when deciding whether to tackle sharing viewpoints in person. There are some people out there who, if you talk to them long enough, you will find are slightly (and some more than just slightly) deranged. They do not react well to having ANY view they hold dear challenged.
@ Sarah and vanyel5... I actually got an email just the other day telling me that what you eat causes cancer. Then there was a list of everything you should not be eating, because if you consume these things you are going to get cancer and die! It had everything I eat (and drink) on the list. Oy vey! Now I take things like that with a grain of salt. Some would get the email and immediately take it to heart. What is that old saying about not believing everything you read and only half of what you see?
I was totally (blissfully) unaware of EWG until a couple of years ago. According to their site there is much that is safe out there. To my way of thinking it is sad to live in a world where you are genuinely afraid of so many things. -
Lindygirl,
I think the internet is wonderful, but it has ruined a lot of things in the world--in the old days, a crazy person putting out a crazy list of supposed poisons would have to type it up, put it in envelopes, and mass mail it (too much trouble). People got their medical advice from their doctor, and most people trusted what their doctor said. I stumbled across the treehuggers site last night (you might see my post there lol)--and someone was actually advising someone else not to listen to their doctor, because doctors don't know about all the poisons in cosmetics. -
Not good to not believe your doctor. There is that oath...'first do no harm'. The docs I know take that very seriously.
I agree the internet is a wonderful thing and we can learn a lot from it but at the same time we do have to learn to sift through the information presented. Just because you read it somewhere does not mean it is true.
Funny story about treehuggers.
We were approached on the street in a city we were visiting by treehuggers. They had the small pencils (like golfers use to write on their scorecards) and they wanted to give up slips of paper on which we were supposed to put our name and address so they could send us literature from their organization. What is wrong with this picture? First - the pencils, made of wood from trees. Second - the slips of paper, made from trees. And third - junk mail, printed on paper made from trees. And you are here trying to save the trees?
And, yes, that DID happen. -
That was one time when I did try to explain my point to someone face to face. The complete blank stares I got. Goodness. They just did not understand how little sense what they were doing made.
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Yeah, I'm referring to the treehugger site that is "a discovery company" (not sure if there is more than one treehugger lol). I was active in the commentary on "Beyond Parabens: 7 Cosmetic Ingredients You Need to Avoid." Here goes: Fragrance (period); Polyethylene Glycol (okay, as they admit, this is not one but several polymeric compounds; all of those used in cosmetics I strongly suspect are perfectly safe to put on your skin; at least one form of PEG is approved for oral use--miralax--and I think more than one); "nanoparticles" (such as micronized zinc oxide and micronized titanium dioxide); phenoxyethanol; triclosan; petroleum jelly (of course); and quaternium-15. http://www.treehugger.com/files/2009/08/beyond-parabens.php
Someone was actually arguing that the sun is a cancer-fighter so you should avoid sunscreens, which (it is claimed) cause cancer. Okayyyyy, tell that to someone with a crater in their back or leg from a melanoma that was excised, or someone who lost a relative to that disease. I suppose they're talking about vitamin D--which may reduce cancer risk, and which we can supplement soooo easily (ooo nooo mister bill) from a tablet, some fish, or a glass of freakin milk (okay, sorry, I'm losing it). -
I understand completely. I take D3 myself. I also drink milk and eat yogurt. After having relatives with skin cancer and losing a sibling to melanoma I do not venture forth without sunblock. Ever.
Many moons ago when I was a kid we didn't HAVE sunblocks. Or at least at our house we didn't. Fortunately for me I never liked lying in the sun, much preferring to be in the shade with a book to read. My mother fussed, but little did she know back then I was doing the future me a huge favor! -
I'm so sorry you lost someone to the disease. You really DO understand.
I'm glad that you happened not to love sun as a young person, and that you are grown up now and can choose to protect yourself.
My household did have sunblock long before it was popular--BUT it probably didn't contain much UVA protection (I don't remember it being opaque white, which suggests it probably wasn't zinc but paba) and I did tan unprotected as a teenager and in my early 20's (fortunately, not very often). It just goes to show how idiotic some of the arguments can get. -
Great discussion! Sorry I hadn't been part of it sooner.
Here's a quick addition. There's a relatively new site out there called Personal Care Truth . They do a pretty good job with some of their articles. Others are still a bit Quack-filled but you might enjoy the site. -
Oh that looks fascinating! I bookmarked it and, knowing me, I will spend hours reading.....
Thanks for the link! -
I don't know who this "Mr. Mercola" dude is but I'll google him he sounds like an ass. I hate it so much when people try to make conspiracies about why people are born with autism. As if it was a disease. I am being tested for aspergers soon and I find it so offensive how people talk about people with autism as if they are less by simply being who they are. I do not think it is necessary always to "cure" these people, they simply need skills and resources to adapt. We need to accept people the way they are. Also I used to be into CFSC and they sent me a EWG thing asking for me to donate money!!! I think there are much more worthy causes to donate to! Greedy pigs.
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