Can fat be beautiful?

rozy

I am very interested on the fat acceptance movement and I want to know if you people associate fatness with unattractive and why. I hope the beauty brains will blog about the fat acceptance movement.
http://lovelivegrow.com/2012/10/21-things-to-stop-saying-unless-you-hate-fat-people/
http://www.haescommunity.org/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22830096

Ally E.

it all comes down to being overweight and obese is harmful to one's health, it's plain stupid to accept it and say it's ok you're fat

rozy

you cant tell someone is unhealthy just by looking at them, if someone is eating good and exercising and they are fat thats ok you can be fat and healthy. thin people are not always healthy, my dad eats like he should be fat tons of candy and junk food and hes skinny as a freaking rake and so is this girl i know would smokes a ton of pot and than binges on food from it but shes skinny as a model naturally except her teeth are stained really bad from the weed. some people go on medications that make them gain weight this happened with me and prozac but i would rather be fatter and happy than skinny and miserable. i dont think fat=unhealthy and thin=healthy is always true, it isnt so black and white. when professional weight lifters use a bmi calculator they would be desribed as "morbidly obese" even my doc uses just a bmi calculator without testing for the amount of muscle mass. i feel there is discrimination to fat people in hiring and in the medial community and there are untrue stereotypes of fat people being lazy, smelly, slobs etc. some peoples body is just the way that it is and i think shaming fat people and using euphemisms to describe them is damaging just as treating black people like they are less.

zeldabacon

Depends on how fat are you. Its nothing like that fat people can't look bful. I f you really feel bad about your looks then work out hard and get your desired shape.

Ally E.

fat people can not be healthy, it has been proven by numerous studies. they eat healthy and exercise but still are fat? there's a reason for it, a health reason. hormonal imbalance most probably, like thyroid issues. people are designed to be normal weight, that's what our bodies were built for. being fat is not the same as being black. black is a skin colour, being fat is an abnormality.

lindygirl1960

@ Ally - rozy is correct, though, when she says that weight is not the only indicator. A bodybuilder would classify as morbidly obese if you go by weight alone. You do have to factor in muscle mass. Checking the waist measurement is a fairly good rule of thumb in that case. It should be below 40" for men and 35" for women.

It is also possible to qualify as overweight and still have good blood pressure, cholesterol and blood sugar readings.

Not a professional by any means, but I know a little about the subject. :)

Ally E.

yeap, you're correct here, but they're not fat are they? i know a lot about this subject as I'm battling with my 'obese' range BMI. And in no way I am not fat. I have been reading numerous books and studies, so I know what I'm talking about when I say fat is not healthy. most people who are fat have a very high fat percentage and their weight does matter

rozy

I have done research too and being fat can be like being black or lgbt because of the stereotypes and discrimination they deal with, and some people's fat is genetic yet they are healthy. I think people who shame fat people and use the excuse they are not healthy are really just concern trolls you want to put down people that society tells them are wrong simply by being as they are.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2198513/People-fat-AND-fit-study-finds-obesity-doesnt-automatically-lead-ill-health.html?ito=feeds-newsxml
http://www.jabfm.org/content/25/4/422.full

rozy

Here is a really great resource for the other side of the obesity "epidemic". http://redefiningbodyimage.tumblr.com/post/17770763679/big-fat-list-of-myth-defying-health-resources
"It’s probably shocking for some to hear that there even
ARE health benefits to being fat. But as these doctors noted, kidney
disease isn’t the only health problem where studies have shown that
being fat appears protective and beneficial, especially as we age. It
also includes infections, cancer, lung disease, heart disease,
osteoporosis, anemia, high blood pressure, rheumatoid arthritis and type
2 diabetes." http://junkfoodscience.blogspot.ca/2006/12/obesity-paradox-2-how-can-it-be.html
I also wanted to call out the Left Brain in this post: http://thebeautybrains.com/bbforum/discussion/comment/14574#Comment_14574
For a site that is good at debunking myths and looking at things from an unbiased angle I was disappointed it seemed like fear mongering which is just what you draw attention to with the greenwashing bullcrap. I just want other beauty brains who see fat people as disgusting and unhealthy to think more critically of those views and where they are coming from which is mostly the media. As said in previously linked article if we could shame every fat person into thinness there would be no fat people. I hope you all can be more openminded and accept people's bodies for how they are. & would could not see how hot this plus size model is?? http://msmagazine.com/blog/blog/2012/03/18/future-of-feminism-freedom-from-body-shaming-regardless-of-size/

Ally E.

rozy, are you overweight that you're trying to defend this position? have you seen your doctor about it? did they determine you're healthy? it just seem weird for someone to be so passionate about something unless it's really personal

Ally E.

also quoting dailymail hardly gives your arguments any credibility, but i see what you're trying to say, I just don't agree with it

rozy

I dont see why it matters how much I weigh but no I am I have thin privilege but I have people I love in my life that are fat. The reason I care is because I am a feminist and I believe all people deserve equality. I know the daily mail isnt the best source but I had trouble finding the exact studying so I linked an article talking about that study. I am healthy according to my doctor and fat people can be healthy too. http://danceswithfat.wordpress.com/2012/06/24/whats-this-thin-privilege-thing/
I would also like to point out that some people are fat because of socioeconomic factors and shaming them is very classist and there are thin people too who eat poorly due to lack of income.

Ally E.

it mostly comes down to lack of education and knowledge, eating healthy is not more expensive, it's that their parents were eating that way and they didn't really see a different way. i never had a hot dog or hamburger in my life and grew up on whole foods, but then again I was born in USSR. I moved to London and then my weight problems started

lindygirl1960

So, Ally, could it be that sometimes people have weight issues because they eat what is most readily available?

Ally E.

if you mean frozen pizzas, microwave dinners and mcdonald's then of course :) life is so much easier when you it that way, until it reflects on your health, isn't it? I know when I'm away hubby always resorts to that kind of diet because he's too lazy

but it's not like fresh meat and veg is not readily available

lindygirl1960

And then you have the folks who live alone and it is just depressing to cook for one. Or they are getting on in years and cannot get around like they once did and cannot cook anymore.

I am only saying it is not fair to paint everyone with the same brush. Yes, eating that way will tell on the person's health, but until and unless you have been in that person's shoes you cannot know what it is like to be them.

And, believe it or not, there are areas in my country where there are no grocery stores selling fresh meats and vegetables within walking distance of people's homes. Where I live if you don't have a car and can drive to a grocery store your options are sorely limited. If you are one of those elderly folks who cannot drive anymore you have to depend on someone else to take you to get your groceries.

These are just observations I have from what I see around me where I live.

Ally E.

are you saying they don't have fresh produce in those shop that the people are taken into? I understand people will always have excuses for why they are not eating healthy foods, but it's up to those people to do their best. delivery service? help from social services? joining a group that will help get to the store that sells fresh produce? there's always a way out if you're willing. I mean it would be very convenient to buy crap food from the store instead of tracking down grass fed meat and dairy and organic produce at farmer's markets, but I want the best. don't get me started on the whole american way of life were getting fresh produce is a struggle to certain layers of society...

moonshyne

I don't down people for their body weight. I spent my life "skinny" and never thought about weight, I just stayed at the same weight no matter what I ate. Then I entered my 30's and started a family. 3 kids later and I've had my weight struggles. Thanks to breastfeeding, the weight came off quick this time when I gave birth to my youngest 7 months ago BUT my last pregnancy wasn't so easy. Breastfeeding never worked out that time and I had a hard time losing the 50 pounds I'd gained with my middle child. I felt depressed and struggled daily to eat right (all while raising 2 kids 12 months apart..no easy feat to eat right when your crazy busy with a baby and toddler!)

But all that said, being a healthy weight is important to me for a few reasons. Health. It's no secret that excess pounds can cause a myriad of health issues and having spinal stenosis, the extra weight made my pain much worse. Self confidence: I felt like crap overweight. I felt ugly and hated the mirror. I needed to lose the weight for ME! I guess it comes down to how much you value your health and how comfortable you are. I have friends who are overweight and could care less. They've spent thier lives overweight and it doesn't bother them (or so they say..not sure if that's just a defense mechanism) but for me personally, I wasn't happy til I lost the weight. For anyone pregnant or just having had a baby I highly recommend breastfeeding. Not just for the health benefits for baby but the weight literally fell off for me! Breastfeeding caused me to lose weight very fast and within 2 months I was actually smaller then my pre-pregnancy weight!

rozy

Ally did you not notice the price difference between processed food vs fresh foods, not to mention grain fed meat and organic milk which is even more expensive, the closest farmer's market for me is in a city 40 mins away. Some people are scraping by to feed themselves, and its choose between food that is unhealthy and cheap or let the kids starve and be taken away by social services. You sound like someone who has no idea what kind of food a foodbank gives out, a lot of mac n cheese, sodium rich food and little that would qualify as healthy. If you are lucky you can get canned or frozen fruit and veggies. Heck you are lucky if you get food from a foodbank that hasn't expired. It is most certainly an issue of class if one can enjoy whole foods or not. To say people have excuses for not even healthy without considering every person's situation is like telling a disabled person they are lazy because they can't walk.
http://www.ctvnews.ca/poor-are-hit-hardest-by-rising-food-prices-study-1.588200
http://www.pslweb.org/liberationnews/news/high-cost-of-healthy-eating.html
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22709700
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22607461
If someone is fat and healthy that don't need scorn and disapproval finely veiled as "concern about their health" even if someone is fat and unhealthy they have heard the drone of the media for years that they are basically subhuman. Believe it or not unhealthy people are also human. Cost is a possible barrier to healthy eating for the most economically disadvantaged.

Ally E.

not really, processed food is cheaper. pork loins (the expensive cut of pork) are £5 for 5 of them while processed tv dinner would be £3-£4 for a portion. That's just a small example. Also I don't need your list of websites trying to justify people who are sitting on their bums doing nothing to improve their health and complaining about the costs of 'real food'. You don't need to go to farmer's market to eat remotely healthy. You're just providing more and more excuses.

I don't really care if they are human or subhuman, that's not what this discussion is about. I wouldn't be concerned about their health either, I'm one of those selfish ones that cares about themselves more :) I just can not believe the cheek of a person trying to justify being fat as being OK, you should read more studies until you learn what implications being overweight has. I'm not going to come back to this discussion as I can see it's pointless really, you heard my side, I heard yours. Gave me a good chuckle

lindygirl1960

There is a saying I think applies to the tone this thread has taken. Be kinder than is absolutely necessary. You never know what kind of battle the other person may be fighting. Or, in other words, do unto others as you would have done unto you.

Just my two cents worth.

rozy

Ally how about you please give me some evidence that eating non-processed is cheaper you are making it sound universal. There is a global shortage of food and prices of everything especially healthy food has gone up, junk food too has gone up but not as much.The only reason I mentioned a farmer's market is because you brought it up earlier, I was using my personal experiences as an example. I have seen the studies that being "obese" is harmful, they are in the news all the time and absolutely sensationalized you have to live under a rock not to hear them, but they are oversimplified and discriminatory and I feel they do not represent all fat people. As for me "justifying" fatness I am not because its a body type that can be influenced by genetics and I do not feel anyone deserves to have to "justify" the way they are any more than a skinny person has to justify their natural body type, any more than a lesbian has to justify her sexuality and any more than a black person has to justify their skin color. I sincerely believe that everyone should have their basic rights met and be respected regardless of their size or other things that make them different from the norm of society; I believe in equality and you can chuckle at that if you want. I also believe that fat people can be beautiful. http://jezebel.com/5955909/is-the-war-on-obesity-just-a-massive-conspiracy-to-sell-diet-pills
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18260925/ns/health-diet_and_nutrition/t/dieting-usually-fails-long-run-study-finds/#.UI7alml26XQ
http://www.bodylovewellness.com/2010/06/09/kai-hibbard-biggest-loser-finalist-part-1-of-3/

Ally E.

I don't eat processed food, nor was I brought up on it. I was born during the fall of USSR and my family was broke, we could not afford food if it wasn't for my grandparents and we managed to survive on less than $5 a week 4 people. It wasn't processed food that we ate, anyway when I do look at processed food prices it's not cheaper by any means unless you shop in Iceland, which I know you wouldn't know about because you're not from UK. Iceland is all frozen food shop that sells processed foods quite cheaply. I also should mention that I don't earn a lot, but don't have problems affording real food, yes, I can't really afford organic or grass fed from the farm stuff, but basic things like milk, cheese, veggies, raw meets, honey, prawns, frozen veggies, yogurt, flour - it's all affordable.

rozy

Hey Ally, I see your point the price of food really varies depending on where you are. Where I live all food is pretty crazy high especially with tax. A lot of people from England are coming to here and say food prices in general are a lot more affordable. The point I am trying to make is that I think its better to look at people of all sizes free of stereotypes, if you saw a thin person you wouldn't be thinking to yourself that person is lazy and eats junk food but that could be exactly their life style and a fat person you may think those bad things and they could be an athlete who eats nutritious foods. A person could have a health problem that makes them under or over weight. I think some people just have a natural body type and trying to change what they were born with could do more harm than good, I say if you are fat and healthy thats awesome and you aren't gross you are just who you are and thats only one thing about you. All I want is for people to open their minds a little bit and realize that this issue is complex.

Ally E.

I see what you're saying, but if you go back to my first post I say that most people are naturally thin, unless they have serious hormonal problems, and even then on right protocol their problems will be managed and if everything is done right in most cases the issues will be solved. if you refer to what people call 'stocky' then it's not really fat, but if a person is overweight and their body fat percentage is high then it's not normal (athletic people wouldn't have a high fat percentage, excluding world strongest men kind of athletes, i'm not sure how healthy or unhealthy they are). our bodies are great things and are design to function their best possible way, if you feed it right it will serve you right and will look good. and i agree a lot of skinny people eat junk food, just watch Super sized vs super skinny on youtube - great example. and yes everyone has a natural body type, someone will be bony, someone will be stocky, but they will not be fat. this will change when people age of course

rozy

It is a common myth that in every fat person there is a thin person waiting to get out, I think healthy bodies come in a diversity of sizes. http://everydayfeminism.com/2012/10/busting-myths-about-fat-bodies/

rozy

It annoys me when diet and beauty get lumped together the beauty industry CAN and I stress CAN be a place of positive and rewarding self expression it can be many things to many people but the diet industry is pure poison that just adds our shaming of people for their body type, their size and judging them on external factors which CAN be out of their control. The diet industry is the root of why we are so confused as a society equating thinness with health when nothing could be further from the truth. I know this is a blog of cosmetic chemists but I would love to see some social issues and perception on beauty and how beauty ideals change. Just a thought.

nanhah

ally- for some reason, your arguments have really offended me. i have one small example for you, look at the samoans and Maori people. when they have a proper diet and eat healthy foods, and are healthy people, they are big. they aren't the tiny little people we recognize as healthy and ideal, they are heavier, but they're very healthy. that is how they're supposed to be.

some people are just meant to be bigger. no matter how well they eat and exercise they will stay the same weight. that said, people were not meant to be 100 pounds overweight. im saying if you have a little muffin top, or thighs that rub a little when you walk and cant lose weight and kept it off (healthily) that thats a good weight for you,you shouldn't worry about being different, or have to listen to people tell you your fat and need to change. you can be active and healthy without being tiny and perfect.

now, im tired of ranting so i wont go on to much longer, but about the food thing, i come from a place that has alot of (CAN) really bad living conditions, and is very cold and remote. your saying there is always options for people, but there, 9there truly isn't anything they can do. if those kids want anything to eat that day, they're forced to go buy a 6 dollar bag of doritos. fresh meat of produce is nearly extinct there, and when they do get it no one can afford it. a can of beans costs 10 canadian dollars. im done with this, i could go on forever, but its useless.

rozy

that sounds like the situation up in the northern territories i've seen it on the news how bad it is its unbelievable i live in NS and its bad especially for native people on reserves but still not THAT bad compared to up north i have a friend in NWT luckily they are rich so they dont have to worry, and if i am not correct the yukon has the highest taxes and the lowest minimum wage in all of canada. nahah what you are sharing is far from useless. there is more than one body shape that can be healthy, when i was that thin i had an eating disorder and my hair was falling out!

rozy

http://www.adiosbarbie.com/2012/12/ditch-the-diet-in-2013/

joanv

NPR just had a segment today how a few extra pounds aren't so bad after all! Not a lot, just a few! Previously they thought 5 pounds underweight meant a longer life than 5 pounds overweight. I have a long way to go in either case!

http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2013/01/02/168437030/research-a-little-extra-fat-may-help-you-live-longer

cranberrymoonz

A very interesting discussion! I would like to add my thoughts..

I do think fat can be beautiful. I also think that women who have a 'healthy' weight can be rather ugly. I my opinion you can't define beauty with scales. It is all about the shape of your body, face, hair, skin condition. Or about if you dress well for your body type and generally care for yourself and your appearance. Not even mentioning the impact of the way you walk and talk or your personality. Models have to be nearly perfect, but we don't. And we should'n want to be, because we can't and it makes us unhappy.

Now, I am not saying severely obese people shouldn't lose weight. They should, if they are bothered by it, or for health reasons. Here is a little anekdote about weight and health..

When I was little, I had an nanny who was pretty fat. She wasn't healthy at all: she smoked like a devil, drank about ten cups of coffee a day (not kidding!) and ate a terrible lot of high fat and cholesterol foods. She wasn't pretty at all, but she was very kind and very funny. Right now she is 70 and she hasn't changed a bit. She is still telling me she doesn't care to live a long life. She just wants to live it to the fullest. And she did; she was very active. (She was caring for 17 children every week and still she went hiking and cycling.) Last year she stopped being a nanny because she had some kind of brain injury. She is still one of the happiest persons I know. And she is worth her weight in gold as a friend xD

How important is beauty if you are a great person? How important is health if you are happy?

rozy

Perhaps they are all linked.

rozy

http://www.beautyredefined.net/ <<This is a good site for people who suffer from body image issues, it looks at the beauty industry from a critical sociological perspective. Just thought I'd share a link to one of my other favorite blogs. :)

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