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That’s why I like the Ascorbyl tetraisopalmitate, it’s much much more stable. Also it’s oil soluble, which is better absorbed by skin than water-soluble ingredients. Compare it to salicylic acid and glycolic acid, salicylic acid is oil soluble and is better absorbed by your skin.
I think anhydrous ascorbic acid is better than ascorbic acid in water, because on skin some gets dissolved in the water present in your skin (which is indeed a lower percentage than in water dissolved ascorbic acid), but the not absorbed fraction in anhydrous serums won’t oxidise on your skin during the day as fast. Because as you found oxidized vitamin c may become a prooxidant.
Btw I’ve asked the ordinary. All products are stable in the packaging they use, also the caffeine+EGCG. They do stability testing. Also the retinol products are stable, at least that’s what they claim. They made a comparison with prescription retinoic acid, which is also packaged in tubes and isn’t that sensitive to air. Which might be a valid point, although I need to keep my retinoic acidic in the refrigerator where you can keep it for 4 months after opening.
>I think anhydrous ascorbic acid is better than ascorbic acid in water, because on skin some gets dissolved in the water present in your skin (which is indeed a lower percentage than in water dissolved ascorbic acid), but the not absorbed fraction in anhydrous serums won’t oxidise on your skin during the day as fast. Because as you found oxidized vitamin c may become a prooxidant.
Bingo. Even fresh Ascorbic Acid can oxidise (not in the bottle) but on the skin! I have experienced this. Do you think this is dependant on the free radicals in the air?Any idea about the absorption time it takes for Vitamin C to be absorbed?I guess in terms of effectiveness. Ascorbic Acid in water is the best in results and fastest in absorption but the risk of oxidation can outweigh the benefits.That;s why perhaps my dermatologist did not sell Vitamin C with Ascorbic Acid. The product was still very good, and it did not irritate the skin. Not a low pH.I have yet to try Ascorbyl tetraisopalmitate in high concentration, so i will compare that with my 3 weeks experience with Ascorbic Acid in anhydrous formula and also the other derivatives i have tried as well as LAA in water.
I never thought of keeping my tretinoin in the refrigerator. i will now … great tip! And yes, i always finish it and throw it out… it will oxidise if kept too long. i have a tube that went bad. It became pro-oxidant, detrimental to the skin!@Peter This article you shared i enjoyed reading very much.
What ingredients should i look out for that have “soy” … it is also a very good Melanosome Transfer Inhibitor.> the best researched ‘anti-aging’ ingredients remain Retinoic Acid, Ascorbic Acid, Niacinamide, Alpha Hydroxy Acids and perhaps Soy Extracts (Genistein) and some polyphenolic compounds in Green Tea. Other actives are not that well researched.N-Acetyl Glucosamine is another ingredient that is complementary to Niacinamide and there has been countless studies to back it’s effectiveness.- R. Osborne, L. A. Mullins, and L. R. Robinson, “Topical N-Acetyl Glucosamine and Niacinamide Increase Hyaluronan,” The Procter & Gamble Company, Cincinnati, Ohio USA.
- J. Navarrete-Solis, J.P. Castanedo-Cazares, B. Torres-Alvarez, C. Oros-Ovalle, C. Fuentes-Ahumada, F.J. Gonzalez, J.D. Martınez-Ramırez, and B. Moncada, “A Double-Blind, Randomized Clinical Trial of Niacinamide 4% versus Hydroquinone 4% in the Treatment of Melasma”, Dermatology Research and Practice, pp:1-5, 2011.
- https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19845667
- https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2006-03/msl-nss032306.php
- https://engineeringevil.com/2012/08/16/n-acetyl-glucosamine-and-niacinamide-significantly-reduced-the-amount-and-appearance-of-hyperpigmentation-age-spots-and-uneven-melanin-distribution/
> Resveratrol, Genistein, Caffein, Ferulic Acid, Astaxanthin,Quercetin, Pycnogenol, Green tea polyphenols, EGCG, Silymarin, Idobenone, Lipoic Acid, Glutathione etc…Lovely lovely ingredients. and most of the time, not required in large quantities… if there is no issue with stability. i do not see why can’t they all be combined. Wow what a powerhouse botanical plant based anti-oxidant this would be!Most companies would usually include 1 active ingredient, no more than 3… it’s rare they’ll concoct such a powerful product. The closest i have seen is made by Skin Actives. Many of the plant derived ingredients you’re keen on are not the easiest to dissolve. Alcohol is usually best to dissolve the plant based ingredients but not well liked.To add to your dream list i have- Pycogenlol (Pinebark)
- Alpha Lipoic Acid
- Hesperidin
- Gamma oryzanol
- Proanthocyanins
- Pomegranate / Ellagic Acid
- Tetrahydrocurcuminoids / Turmeric
- Centella asiatica / Gotu Kola
On my retinoic acid cream it says store refrigerated. But I had another brand before that didn’t need to be kept in the refrigerator.
As far as I know not all the ascorbic acid you apply will be absorbed. From what I’ve read ascorbic acid is the gold standard, most beneficial effects linked to vitamin c comes from studies with ascorbic acid. But a derivative like Ascorbyl tetraisopalmitate is maybe in real life situations better because it’s more stable, and possibly better absorbed because it’s oil soluble.
There are many studies on the other ‘anti-aging’ ingredients indeed. But some believe they can’t be absorbed by skin that easily. Perry made an article here about it a while ago, based on a study where they answer the kligman questions for cosmeceuticals and the amount of good quality research. Then only the few actives I mentioned can be considered proven actives, but maybe some others can be as well.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2921764/@Peter It’ll make sense to refrigerate since it gets as hot >40°C here in Sydney during summer. I have started storing all my serums and creams in the refrigerator now.
Good article on anti-aging ingredients!Ascorbic acid is the gold standard but what they are referring to is the one dissolved in water, there is still not much research on anhydrous LAA formula.
Did you buy the book?- Chemical Stability of Pharmaceuticals: A Handbook for Pharmacists by Door Kenneth A. Connors,Gordon L. Amidon,Valentino J. Stella
Are you referring to this beauty brains podcast? Which anti-aging ingredients REALLY work? Episode 21Not sure if i have shared this article Skin Ageing: Natural Weapons and Strategies:you’ll be keen on Table 2: Plants anti photo-ageing action.Water soluble ingredients are much more difficult to penetrate your skin. So most studies have indeed been done with ascorbic acid dissolved in water, simply because ascorbic acid is water soluble. But it doesn’t mean it penetrates easily.
http://thebeautybrains.com/2015/07/do-cosmetic-ingredients-really-penetrate-skin-episode-92/Yes that was the post from Randy about anti-aging ingredients.
Interesting articles. Indeed there are dozens of good plant extracts according to some studies, although there are only a few ingredients where their beneficial effects on skin has been proven by multiple good quality studies with real humans. Most of the plant extracts benefits have only been studied in lab studies or in a single study, with much uncertainty if those ingredients can really penetrate skin and can be used in skincare. But maybe after some years there will be more studies and we consider them good ‘cosmeceutical’ ingredients.
@Peter hmmm i have read that fat soluble ingredients penetrate better. Will look at episode 92, thanks for referencing it! I am still working thru’ all of TBB’s chest of info.
Plenty to go thru. The theory of how plants are out in the sun with polyphenols and flavonoids to deal with UV makes lots of sense. With medical studies, my understanding is sometimes the funding? Under what circumstances are medical research done? I do not have any science degree nor any idea on that. It does make sense that newer ingredients have less medical research done, or sometimes done by the company who are selling the patented ingredient. Independent IN VIVO studies are rare.in the table of anti-aging ingredients, there are several anti-aging ingredients that are excellent to treat pigmentation too.This table of skin lighteners are of interest to me for my pigmentation concerns. It’s not clear which part of the plant that is the most effective. Sometimes, i see a company may include several similar ingredients from 1 botanical extract eg licorice. I wonder why they do that.I’ve seen an interview with Dr Sivak of Skin actives, she mentioned how some plant extracts are useless. It depends on the extraction process as the active ingredient may be present in a small % of the actual plant. Majority of the plant is celullulose, chorophyll, rubisco ( Ribulose bisphosphate carboxylase).Another journal on Skin anti-aging strategies you may have seen. this takes a broader picture and discusses invasive procedures, apart from topicals as well as lifestyle/habits.Some of The Ordinary products contain Propanediol, which is similar to Propylene Glycol, which can be irritating and allergenic to skin. Also the Lactic Acid products contain the allergenic fragrance Ethyl 2,2-Dimethylhydrocinnamal (aka cinnamal). And the BHT, Behentrimonium Chloride (quat which I’m allergic to) and Triethanolamine are not so great.So not all ingredients are perfect unfortunately.Also I really would like to know if its good to apply sugar (contained in the “Buffet”: fructose, glucose, maltose etc) to your skin, because eating sugar will cause crosslinking of collagen (glycation).@Peter Propanediol can also be Propylene Glycol.
Depends on how Canada INCI laws are. If i was a manufacturer, i would put 1,2 propanediol instead of 1,3-propanediolUsually when i see propylene glycol i lose interest in the product.…sigh.. with commercial products… perfection is not attainable. kindda like beauty.I do not like the VItamin C 23%. Depending on layers i apply, the ascorbic acid can pill off!So far. I like 20% Ascorbyl tetraisopalmitate more. (more expensive, they increased the price since i bought it! damn)“Also I really would like to know if its good to apply sugar (contained in the “Buffet”: fructose, glucose, maltose etc) to your skin, because eating sugar will cause crosslinking of collagen (glycation). “hmmm didn’t notice that! you are observant and an ingredient nazi…❤️❤️❤️ lol.. i’m coming to you in the future to check my ingredients… takes a guy who knows his cosmetics (rare) and in girls (more rare)Ingredients
Aqua (Water), Glycerin, Lactococcus Ferment Lysate, Acetyl Hexapeptide-8, Pentapeptide-18, Palmitoyl Tripeptide-1, Palmitoyl Tripeptide-7, Palmitoyl Tripeptide-38, Dipeptide Diaminobutyroyl Benzylamide Diacetate, Acetylarginyltryptophyl Diphenylglycine, Sodium Hyaluronate Crosspolymer, Sodium Hyaluronate, Allantoin, Glycine, Alanine, Serine, Valine, Isoleucine, Proline, Threonine, Histidine, Phenylalanine, Arginine, Aspartic Acid, Trehalose, Fructose, Glucose, Maltose, Urea, Sodium PCA, PCA, Sodium Lactate, Citric Acid, Hydroxypropyl Cyclodextrin, Sodium Chloride, Sodium Hydroxide, Butylene Glycol, Pentylene Glycol, Acacia Senegal Gum, Xanthan Gum, Carbomer, Polysorbate 20, PPG-26-Buteth-26, PEG-40 Hydrogenated Castor Oil, Trisodium Ethylenediamine Disuccinate, Ethoxydiglycol, Sodium Benzoate, Caprylyl Glycol, Ethylhexylglycerin, Phenoxyethanol, Chlorphenesin.
I am liking this product so far. Breakdown of the actives.-
Matrixyl 3000 peptide complex (with palmitoyl-pentapeptide 35),
- Contains two matrikines, Pal-GHK and Pal-GQPR. Acting as messengers of cutaneousrestructuration and repair, these two peptides work synergistically to restore and maintain the skin’s youthful appearance.
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Matrixyl® 3000 has been shown to regulate the expression of well-known (SA β-galactosidase) and recently discovered (progerin) markers of senescence. Indeed, it does not only reduce the SA β-galactosidase activity, but it also reduces the progerin’s expression while preserving the expression of the normal form lamin A*.
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Then, immunohistochemistry analysis of skin sections ex vivo has proved that Matrixyl® 3000significantly stimulates synthesis of Collagen-I, -IV, -VII, -XVII and Nidogen-I proteins. While these proteins of the dermis and dermal-epidermal junction usually decrease with age, Matrixyl® 3000 rejuvenates the dermal structure.
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More information here
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Matrixyl Synthe’6 peptide complex (with palmitoyl tripeptide-38),
- A peptide produced from derivatives of the amino acids lysine and methione sulfone (the latter is synthetic). Palmitoyl tripeptide-38 is a matrikine-mimetic compound that regulates cell activity, wound repair and collagen tissue remodeling.
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Syn-Ake peptide complex (with dipeptide diaminobutyroyl benzylamide diacetate),
- marketed as an alternative to Botox injections
- formulated to get rid of wrinkles, crow’s feet, and other signs of aging.
- designed to fight aging, is a synthetic form of snake venom.
- Syn-ake replicates the effects of a peptide that is known as Waglerin 1, which is a component of the venom found in the Temple Viper.
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Relistase peptide complex (with acetylarginyltryptophyl diphenylglycine),
- created for skin elasticity and tightness enhancement in cosmetic formulations.
- the peptide in Relistase was found to best inhibit excess elastase activity, helping to improve skin elasticity lost due to the normal process of aging or by extransic factors such as excessive solar exposure or air pollution among others.
- By reducing excess elastase activity, RelistaseTM helps to protect elastin and other ECM components which are susceptible to degradation by these enzymes resulting in loose, sagging and wrinkled skin.
- The tetrapeptide also exhibits collagen boosting properties favoring connective tissue improvement, enhancing tensile strength and elastic resistance, thus leading to firmer, tighter, elastic and younger skin.
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Argirelox peptide complex (with acetyl hexapeptide-8, pentapeptide-18),
- It fights expression wrinkles by modulating muscle contraction in the pre-synaptic pathway and is specially addressed to topical formulations claiming to complementthe injections of Botulinum Toxin Type A for enhanced anti-aging results
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Probiotic complex (with lactococcus lactis lysate),
- stabilize skin’s defense system
- calm inflammation in patients with chronic skin conditions
- helps fight inflammation in the gut, neutralizing some toxins and helping to block out others.
- decrease skin sensitivity by reducing neurone reactivity and neurone accessibility.
- Bifidobacterium longum lysate, a new ingredient for reactive skin.
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11 skin-friendly amino acids
- act as water-binding agents, and some have antioxidant properties. Amino acids can be combined with other ingredients that have skin-restorative ability to work in unison to fight signs of aging.
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Multiple hyaluronic acid complexes.
- Hyaluronic Acid: hydration at different weights to penetrate at different levels
I know propanediol exists in two forms, most probably they use 1,3-propanediol. This isn’t exactly the same as propylene glycol. The molecular structure is different, but still the effect on skin is almost identical. So if I can choose between multiple products (the 4 vitamin C products for example), I’m going to choose the one without propanediol. The caffeine serum also contains propanediol, but I think I simply have to live with that.I’ve heard it is very popular to add ingredients like Fructose, Glucose and Maltose in cosmetic products in France. It will give hydration. But I haven’t found a study proving it’s good for skin. On the other hand the Buffet contains such a crazy amount of very good ingredients (peptides, amino acids, hyaluronic acid, allantoin, sodium pca) you can’t simply ignore this product.Thus far I’m in love with the Buffet, the 10% Niacinamide and the caffeine serum. The 23% Ascorbic Acid is also good and extremely potent, but it doesn’t absorb as fast, and they say you can’t combine it with the Niacinamide. I’ve ordered the other products as well, so I really hope I like the 20% Ascorbyl Tetraisopalmitate. According to them it’s no problem to combine the derivatives with other products, and the ascorbyl tetraisopalmitate is also preservative free.@Peter If i am not allergic to propylene glycol, is it an issue? Is the ingredient bad? i don’t remember why i dislike it so much.
I’m don’t think you have to live with anything! I was on Skinactives website today and i am tempted to buy their Black friday sales of the coral serum, some actives and DIY what i want and exclude the ingredients we don’t want.>On the other hand the Buffet contains such a crazy amount of very good ingredients (peptides, amino acids, hyaluronic acid, allantoin, sodium pca) you can’t simply ignore this product.yup. saves me making my own. lol .. sometimes DIY is expensive.. more expensive than buying ready made. if something is readily available and too much more expensive or overpriced (cost vs selling price)… i will just buy off the shelves.lol… fallen in love… there are others who have said similar positive things about Buffet…i am reading dr Sivak’s website and i am still on the fence about using vitamin C products when i use buffet.. the copper peptide makes me uncomfortable. Dr Sivak’s site says not to mix any form of Vitamin C… omg.. not just LAA. she has a similar Matrixyl equivalent peptide (also copper something)i think i found a study that Ascorbic Acid in anhydrous takes hours… did i share here before? MANY HOURS!!! so it could even be rubbed off in our sleep before the skin has a chance to absorb it.I hope you like the Ascorbyl Tetraisopalmitate! i was concerned about the coconut derivatives… but thankfully they did not clog me>ascorbyl tetraisopalmitate is also preservative free.why of course… no water 
i did a brief comparison review of the 4 Ordinary Vitamin C i have. review here. I have reviewed only 2 so far. queueing to try the rest.. maybe in 2 weeks… my Ordinary LAA is running low. Will update the page once i try the rest.
Also compared The Ordinary Azelaic acid with 2 other brands herei had a tip off from someone which i have yet to verify that this Australian company makes a 25% Ascorbyl Tetraisopalmitate!
this is the product. the ingredients are better than The Ordinary and it isn’t expensive.I have used the brand’s products prior and they are good. I like this brand.ingredients: Ascorbyl Tetraisopalmitate. (“Super” Vitamin C), Natural Vitamin E, Olive Squalane.they have shared before and after photos and i have seen online reviews… quite effective!
Another brand too of interest is A’kin Rosehip oil + Ascorbyl Tetraisopalmitate. i don’t know the concentration of this.. but i recommended my friend recently and she opened to let me try… it’s really nice quality. i have emptied a bottle of A’kin rosehip oil before (they didn’t have this version before) and they are one of the best rosehip oil in the market in Australia using supercritical extraction process (without oxygen). I will email the company and hope they reply to advise the concentration % of Ascorbyl Tetraisopalmitate.
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