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I was surprised by the very liquid (almost watery) texture of the Ascorbyl Tetraisopalmitate 20%. I thought it would be extremely oily when I ordered it, but that’s not the case, it takes more time to dry/absorb than the 10% MAP and the 12% Ascorbyl Glucoside though. So in my opinion the Vitamin C guide of the ordinary concerning absorption isn’t completely accurate. Although at the moment I apply the 10% MAP to one half of my face and the Ascorbyl Tetraisopalmitate 20% to the other half during the day, and after some time you don’t see that much difference. Although I do get some red itchy spots on the Ascorbyl Tetraisopalmitate side, and it is so difficult to apply, and it smells really bad
. If the Ascorbyl Tetraisopalmitate didn’t contain Tomato Fruit Extract, I would have used this product, even though it’s most difficult to apply and doesn’t absorb as fast.Maybe I will keep using the Vitamin C suspension 23% at night every other day. It is the strongest Vitamin C product offered by The Ordinary. Although extreme high concentrations of vitamin C can be toxic to cells (While pure vitamin C has many clinical and cosmetical benefits, it degrades easily and its delivery through skin is ineffective. Furthermore, sudden high doses of ascorbic acid may be toxic to cells, so several modified versions of this vitamin have been developed )The Ascorbyl Glucoside 12% absorbs and spreads just as easy as the Niacinamide and Buffet serum of The Ordinary, but I don’t like the irritating Propanediol and Triethanolamine in those high concentrations. Although maybe it’s less of a problem than the Tomato Fruit Extract.So in the end I think I like the Magnesium Ascorbyl Phosphate 10% and the Vitamin C Suspension 23% most. The 10% MAP spreads easily like a light cream, and doesn’t contain irritating ingredients, also it’s the mildest, most hydrating formula. Maybe 10% vitamin C doesn’t sound like a high concentration, but actually it is a very potent concentration, also because its completely solubilized in contrast to some other companies that use MAP.I have a feeling you don’t care as much about the irritating and phototoxic plant extracts though? These ingredients should be avoided by everyone, especially if you’re prone to hyperpigmentation.@Peter I am only learning about it from you so far… still a novice at being a skincare nerd. If i do not have any negative reactions with plant extracts like tomato/citrus, should i be avoiding them? I tried the Avalon Vitamin C you told me to throw away, it is actually really nice and it made my face glow, as well as even out my skin tone. Pretty surprising, even in the day, it’s ok. Of course, i do not dare to use it outdoors, only in doors.
I am using up The Ordinary Vitamin C suspension 23%. Any day now. I decanted a little to give a friend… The Buffet is also running out really quickly!For a DIY perspective, Ascorbyl Glucoside is better than Magnesium Ascorbyl Phosphate due to the pH allowance. I am not sure what is wrong with Propanediol? i thought Ascorbyl Glucoside can be dissolved with water, though at that high concentration i am not sure.Deciem actually recommends MAP for pigmentation concerns. Imagine MAP = 10% = less than 5% Vitamin C absorbed by the Skin… a mere fraction. It will be good long term. MAP recommended dosage is 3-10%. So going any higher hasn’t really been tried.I have not much experience with MAP not solubilised. What is the consequence of an active that isn’t dissolved well? According to Skin Actives, who provides the tools for DIY, its ok. I tend to avoid that…. i prefer to have my actives dissolved. What’s your opinion on this?How quickly are you using your Ordinary products? I am using mine up maybe 1.5 months or so?@preciousia The problem with many of those plant extract and fragrance in general is that it causes phototoxic reactions, it degrades collagen and will cause (often not visible) cellular skin irritation (it’s the reaction described by in the book I once posted). Also many plant extract haven’t been studied for their irritancy very well. look at the collection of studies on the effect of these fragrance and extract I posted, here.
Propanediol is almost identical to Propylene Glycol, there’s a very small difference in how the molecules are arranged, but both are low-molecular glycols. Low molecular glycols, are effective penetration enhancers, but also very common skin sensitizers (link). Thanks for the information on humectants you send btw, I didn’t know they classify them as “givers” and “takers”.I guess not solubilized MAP is less effective, but other than that I don’t know. As a formulator you don’t want your product to separate, so in that sense it needs to be solubilized.I’ve been using the 10% Niacinamide for 4 weeks now, and the 20% Ascorbyl Tetraisopalmitate and 10% MAP for 2 weeks (split face). I must say my skin looks better on the Ascorbyl Tetraisopalmitate side, but it maybe I haven’t used it long enough. There are definitely some red small dots here and there, I will keep using it for a longer time to see what happens. I think they are all half full now. So something like 1.5-2 months is a good guess I think. I’m not using the Buffet and Caffeine now, because I also just started with Retinoic Acid once every 3 days. So 2 serums is good enough for now.I’ve used the Hylamide Finisher HA Blur 2 times now, I think it is a nice product, decreasing shine and the look of pores, I don’t find it to be very hydrating though. I also ordered the Hylamide Matte 12, but didn’t receive it yet.@Peter Noted on the phototoxic reactions. Danke
omg. happened 2x today. i typed a reply and posted it. and the forum lost my text i had been typing>
>Propanediol is almost identical to Propylene Glycol,Yup. It is often a recommended replacement. Propylene Glycol has more reported cases of causing skin issues.The Ordinary Vitamin CI am not surprised that Ascorbyl Tetraisopalmitate is outperforming the rest. That was the reports on my research on this Vitamin C variant but i need to try on my skin to see how my skin will react. To be fair, i think i would need to test it for a good 6-12 weeks to assess it properly.> red small dots here and there,What red dots?>Retinoic AcidMy advice moisture up! Especially smart to start during cold weather…. less UV i am presuming.>Hylamide Finisher HA Blurooooo really? I was thinking of a blur product to fuzz the annoying pores. I did a nice deep clean yesterday with a new skincare gadget i bought … omg… so much crap came out of my pores. now my skin is so clean. will do it again in a couple of days when the pores gunk up again!thanks for sharing this, this product has been sitting in my stash.> What red spots?
Mmm, yeah its difficult to explain. It’s not acne or something and it definitely isn’t very serious either, it’s mainly on my neck, jaw line and cheek bones. It might be some irritation due to the high strength serums, or perhaps some fading acne spots. I’m not quite sure. On the other hand my skin never has been 100% perfect, but it’s better than it was 2 years ago. I’ve tested the sunscreens for about 4 months, split face, not using any other product but sunscreen. I’m not going to test every serum one by one again for several months
. The sunscreen I use is fine, and now I just apply the Niacinamide and Vitamin C and the Finisher, I will see how my skin responds over the coming weeks, I think I just have to get used to the high percentages. The Ascorbyl Tetraisopalmitate side definitely looks better than the MAP side. But well I’ve been using them for 2 weeks now, so I’m going to test both of them for another 4 weeks (split face) and see which one I like most. I was applying way to much of the Ascorbyl Tetraisopalmitate, that’s why I thought it didn’t soak in as vast. If you use a few drops it’s fine I think.>Retinoic AcidYes, it quite cold over here. In the evenings it’s even freezing. That’s why I wanted to start with retinoic acid at this moment of the year, its winter, and the sun hardly shines.>Hylamide Finisher HA BlurSo far I love this product very much! My skin was always oily and shiny due to the thick layer of sunscreen. But now I just let the sunscreen soak in for 15 minutes and then apply this finisher, it looks matte, pores are somewhat less visible (mainly because my face is less shiny). So I think it’s a nice product. Don’t expect your pores to vanish, but I think it definitely looks better than before.– The only thing I don’t like about The Ordinary is, you have to buy like 5-6 different serums, to get the ingredients you want. I still think its quite expensive if they only last 1-1.5 month.
-But the advantage is they do use high percentages, of proven actives, and most of the products don’t contain very problematic irritating ingredients. And the products are much cheaper than the competition, I can’t deny that.>Hylamide Finisher HA BlurI really wonder what the difference is with this Hylamide finisher and the The Ordinary High-Adherence Silicone Primer, from the description they appear to have the same effect, the Ordinary only costs €4.90. Although the Hylamide does contain more mattifying silicones, looking at the ingredients. I find this Hylamide quite expensive to be honest, it’s only 30mL and it costs €19. Also I wonder if there’s a real difference with the Finisher Matte 12.>red spots?i think PIH. are they from where your hair roots are?>Retinoic Acidhee cold = more dry = more moisture + retinoic acid = uber drygood thinking to start now.. i get your train of thought. i did the same.anyways. summer here in Oz. minimising my acids, no more vitamin A (cry)>Hylamide Finisher HA BlurWOW!my pores are only visible to me. I think we both need to back away from the mirror for a moment. noone else really sees them… but i do.ok. it’s in my new product pile.Ordinary LAA finished today, Starting MAP tomorrow.Then the day after i start HA Blur.After sunscreen u say? How do you avoid “pushing your sunscreen shield away” or moving/removing it? how do you apply?> I still think its quite expensive if they only last 1-1.5 month.ditto!- 24/10/2016-19/12/2016 The Ordinary Vitamin C Suspension 23% + HA Spheres 2%
- did not use daily, probably only 60-70% of the time since it is so “user friendly” (not)
- 10/11/2016-20/12/2016 The Ordinary Buffet
- used 2x daily 95% of the time.
The 30ml they say they include is pretty rubbish. in reality. not 30ml. i decanted it. i know.>The Ordinary High-Adherence Silicone PrimerThe owner of Victoria Health was raving about this! i think it is worth a try… I got >60% off my Hylamide so i am starting with that first.>red spots
Its not post inflammatory hyperpigmentation, more redness from irritation, some very small broken capillaries beside my nose and under my eyes, and some sort of red closed comedones (something like this, but then on my neck, yaw line and cheek bone, although not as bad). Reading this it sounds way worse than it is, but my skin definitely isn’t 100% calm and even. It’s not rosacea btw.>The 30ml they say they include is pretty rubbishNo way, that was exactly my thicking. My 10% MAP is almost empty now, only after 2 weeks. When I started with the tube I already had a feeling it was almost empty, it felt there was much less product than the Vitamin C suspension 23%. So I hope they really put 30mL in the product, because that’s already not that much.>The Ordinary High-Adherence Silicone PrimerUnfortunately I can’t order it yet, but if it has almost the same effect as the Hylamide Finisher (I guess it is somewhat different) I’m going to use that one.>How do you avoid “pushing your sunscreen shield away”If you want to do it completely perfect you shouldn’t touch your face after applying sunscreen. But my face gets so oily during the day due to the sunscreen, I constantly have to blot. Now I let the sunscreen soak in (that’s the advantage of chemical sunscreens), and than apply a small amount of the finisher lightly smearing and patting it in. Most people use foundation after their sunscreen, this will also disrupt the sunscreen.@Peter ah. Explanation perfecto. I need to use sunscreen as the final step because I use mineral sunscreen. So the HA blur should be used prior to sunscreen.
Is Ordinary cheating us with less than stated in the bottle.
Yes. I have done many decants. With photos to prove. Usually I close a blind eye if it a little less. Happens with creams, a huge bubble = less volume, hard to control, manufacturing fault. With this brand, the discrepancy in quantity is a little more alarming. I have done a few decants of their product already (3). I will try again, using 2nd bottle of Buffet. My bottles are 30ml. Measured before.Some Brands even cheat & send you the airless bottle with the bottom plate moves much higher up, so they can fill it with less. Happened before. I am not stupid. Don’t try to fool us. Beauty geeks unite.
Regarding your red spots. What does your derm say? I m out of my depth to recommend anything but if it is damaged skin. Copper can do wonders.
I was reading Dr Sivak book that copper is good only on damaged skin. Hylamide Subq uses copper in their product! Red alert. you are not supposed to use this daily. One gal in a forum was using their NIOD CAIS up to 4x a week. I showed her research and implored her to do her homework to use Copper on such a regular basis.
“We avoid copper except in products used to aid healing, because excess copper can promote protein breakdown.” Dr Sivak
Broken capillaries: fixed mine with Skin Actives products, I was using their antioxidant serum, collagen serum, UV repair cream, capillaries gone in 2-3 weeks! I thought I could never get rid of them, my bad, I went too aggressive with my ultrasonic machine. So never again. Gentle around eye area only now.
The decanting results are discerning.
My bottles appeared “full” when I got them. Do yours, too? I’m wondering if they’re using a smaller bottle than an actual 30ml? When I first received my droppers I remember thinking that they look much smaller than the 1 oz (28ml) serum bottles. But I can’t really test this until I’ve finished one of the Ordinaries.Though in the description of Buffet, for example, they note the concentration of some items by weight – which for anything but water is not the same equivalent in ml. Measure the weight in grams for your next decant, too. I wonder if it will be 30g.HOWEVER, if they’re saying they’re giving you 30ml of product, then that’s what you should get!!Ciao,LP.S. In food I’ve found the brand names always give you a little extra and the “generics” a little less. Since I have to test my own recipes before publishing I’m always measuring what comes out of a container! So.. is The Ordinary playing by the “generic” less-than abundant-but-you’re-paying-less-anyway rules?!?Ok 1 product a day. No more.
Yesterday I tried The ordinary vitamin C MAP. Nice formula, like a lotion and I am confused Deciem. MAP Is water soluble, duh, why waste my time with oil emulsions. I prefer to use other oils… vitamin F I am fussy with… And I can only use so much on the face. Blah. Should have read the ingredients. User friendly product but I will not repurchase since I layer several products. Tbh, one of the nicest of the 3 vitamin C I tried so far. AS2G I may give up trying, wanna check ingredients.
Today I will try HYLAMIDE Blur
Today also have to decant another bottle of Buffet since I ran out already yesterday. This time, I won’t wash the bottle, since it was also containing Buffet before, let’s see how full the bottle is. Will report back with results.
Tomorrow : a new cleansing oil, mine ran out. Using the cleansing Balm now and I don’t like having to fiddle with spatula on my holiday. Liquid oil is better for stripping mineral sunscreen.
quantity of The Ordinary products
Detective work to do & verifyThe truth will be clear. I will decant 30ml of Buffet back in the same airless bottle I emptied, Buffet is a liquid. Easy to decant. I’ll sterilise the bottle just in casein my autoclave as I had not been able to before.
Bear in mind the vitamin C suspension was thick gluey, so I am thinking maybe a little left in bottle but no, not true, I put the bottle upside down, not much more product, scraped inside, less than 1% wastage fr decant. There was air bubbles in their bottle too. Sigh. Much much less than 30ml this one that’s why I used it up so quickly.
Buffet on the other hand will have less than 0.5% wastage as the liquid is more runny, not thick like Vitamin C suspension,
2ndly, I will double check the EXACT VOLUME of the bottle I am using to play fair. I just emptied the Vitamin C suspension so I have an empty bottle to check.
Will compare & report back with results,
Also ml is not the same as g
I am pretty sure they said ml not g.
If it is grams I will check too. I have a digital scale up to 2 decimal places
Deciem says the HA blur is the last step, so after your sunscreen.I don’t completely understand, do you like the MAP most? Which one of the vitamin C products are you going to choose then? I’m leaning towards the 20% Ascorbyl Tetraisopalmitate, although I find it quite expensive (€30 for 50 mL and I think it lasts for 3-4 weeks). I stopped the split face experiment, and I’m only using this Vitamin C serum at the moment. The Uncover Moisturizer with 5% Ascorbyl Tetraisopalmitate and 5% Niacinamide lasts 50-60 days, and costs €50. So in the end the products from the Ordinary are more expensive, but well if these products are the best options, I don’t have to buy dozens of products that I only try once (that’s quite expensive as well). Interesting to calculate what I’m spending every month…>quantity of The Ordinary productsWell, my bottles are all full, so I think they really contain 30mL. But the Magnesium Ascorbyl Phosphate in the tube, was almost empty when I started with it. There’s way more product in the 23% Vitamin C and the Hylamide HA blur. Perhaps their machines weren’t adjusted correctly yet? It is allowed to put a little less, or a little more in a product btw (so 29-31mL is fine).
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