Erin Inquires: Can you tell me how Kinoki Detox Foot Pads work or is it a hoax? It is a product that you place on your feet to remove the toxins from your body.
The Left Brain de-feets Kinoki:
I’m going with HOAX on this one, Erin.
The power of vinegar
According to their website, Kinoki Detox Foot Pads claim to draw harmful toxins through the bottom of your feet by using distilled bamboo vinegar. All you do is place the pads on the soles of your feet. As you sleep, the vinegar sucks the evil toxins from all your organs, through your blood stream, until they pass through the bottom of your foot where they are absorbed by the pad. It works on all kinds of contaminants including heavy metals, metabolic waste, microscopic parasites, mucous and even cellulite. You can tell it really works because as the pad absorbs toxins it changes color from white to gray-black.
What a load of crap!
The idea that toxins can be sucked out of your body through the soles of your feet is completely absurd. Dr. Stephen Barrett, M.D., part of the Quackwatch network, did a great job of debunking detox foot patches. He points out that skin is not a permeable membrane, so substances will not easily flow out of the body through the skin. And even if materials could pass through the skin this way, that’s not how detoxification works. True detox involves the liver and kidneys working together to filter the blood. The skin just doesn’t work that way; all it can do is emit sweat, which contains water and salt (and a little sebum).
The Beauty Brains bottom line
This entire concept is so unscientific that it boggles the mind. Yet, even Amazon.com sells detox pads like this! Let the buyer beware!
Want more Beauty Brains brilliance? Get your copy of the Beauty Brains book here.
Note: Comments on this post have been closed due to the fact that they are slowing down the system. If you would like to discuss the topic further, go to the Kinoki Foot pad discussion on our forum.
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to lipstick face:
I do refer to wikipedia frequently, but it is not always as unbllemished as you think. Anyone can add to it with proper footnotes explaining source of information. It is not the one and only source to read. Then again if you have to read the correct article. read:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bamboo_charcoal. The wikipedia article on tourmaline only comments on the gem stone attributes regarding use in jewelry. You need to read more on eastern medicine remedies.There are other herbs in the pads. Why not expand your reading beyond wikipedia. None of us know everything, that is why we approach things with an open mind. Life is difficult enough as it is without pessimists that need absolute proof for everything and live by selective reading. Too bad for you.
Left-
I understand everything you said and that would account for the change in the pad color initially. I also understand that everyone is made up of different DNA and that would offer a partial explaination for the difference in the initial results.
My question is how could the results in color lighten over time? This claim that they do so is what intrigues me most.
Quite frankly, I do not have the money or the know how to test this and was hoping that you could shed some light (metaphorically speaking, Beauty) on the subject.
I’m not sold on the idea of toxins being sucked out of the feet. That makes no sense even to me, HOWEVER, I do question the possibility of a scientifically known or unknown reaction the body might have with the ingredients. I also question the method they use to apply the ingredients and question if this application along with the ingredients mixed has any known or unknown benefits/effects.
Do these foot pads lightened with use as they claim they would on their advertisement? Cece, have yours? Has anyone who has used the foot pads? If they do actually significantly lighten as advertised, then what could possibly be the cause? I question this because I don’t understand this… If this is in fact the case, I would like you to help me to understand.
to summersailin:
Mine have not lightened. Not as heavily laden with gunk, but I still have to scrub the black tarry substance off with soap. I have not noticed any skin peeling off or dry skin. I have been using four nights a week for two weeks other than the ones I placed on other areas during daytime.
I was excited when I first found Beauty Brains, but now I’m proceeding with caution ever since I found the Kinoxi detox pads thread. They may or may not work. But, please do your own research with more reputable doctors and scientists, besides Dr. Stephen Barratt. This guy bashes anything he doesn’t understand. He has been sued over this. He’s constantly in trouble. He is nothing but a close minded trouble maker. He likes to label people as quacks but he is the biggest quack of all!
Also, don’t forget that we don’t think a thing about going into a sauna and “sweating” out impurities. We even use facial steamers for the same purpose. So, I intend to give these pads a try. Also, the detox eye pads.
Annie, please try to add something useful to the conversation instead of just bashing another person. You make these statements about Dr. Barratt without providing any proof. Of course he’s constantly in trouble. The scam artists that he exposes will do anything to shut him up.
As far as sweating goes, exactly what impurities are being “sweated” out?
interesting
so how old is this blog
I just started using these, so was researching
I read on another blog that the FDA puts restrictions on publishing test results on products not FDA approved. Is there any truth to that? If so, it would be pretty impossible to provide you with the “reputable” sites/findings you have requested. 03/17/08 @ 9:32 p.m.
The FDA does not put such restrictions on testing. They put restrictions on claims you can make without evidence. If you have evidence, you can publish it.
This is silly bickering.
Who cares what scientific tests are done on acupuncture?
They also said that cannabis killed brain cells. Of course, it was proven by scientific research. For years, organizations tried to get the research documents released to see what was done in this research, to no avail.
Eventually, it was released and the doctor who did the research is now laughed at and found not credible, what so ever.
Yeah, the research turned up the results of killing brain cells. But the test was flawed (greatly).
The doctor took a group of monkeys, split them into two groups – one as test one as control. One group sat chained up flinging poo at each other and the other group had old school military gas masks put on them. He then proceeded to pump 60 sum Columbian style/strength/size joints into these masks – in five minutes. Killed all the monkeys, cut their brains up, and found out the monkeys who smoked cannabis had a significant amount more dead brain cells – OH MY! You might ask, “well, doesn’t that prove it does kill brain cells?”. First – I could probably search the whole world and not find one person who does such a thing in 5 minutes or would want to. Second – If i strapped any living thing up to a gas mask and pumped any kind of ‘air’ into it that wasn’t the mixture of oxygen, nitrogen, argon, C02, etc (other wise known as our breathable air).. for 5 minutes, they would have a lot of dead brain cells – if not, be dead. It’s called suffocation.
This research was used for many years to make cannabis illegal and to scare the public. It was stated as true by the United States Government.
I know cannabis has nothing to do with magical foot pads but I’m arguing the point of “scientific research” just because someone says they did this and did that and proved this and proved that – means nothing, unless you yourself have done and proved it.
You can’t trust anyone.
If you go to an ‘acupunturist’ (or whatever they would be considered) and they cure your migraines – regardless of its a placebo effect or not – doesn’t it still work?
Some people don’t get the pain relieving effects of ibuprofen or acetaminophen… they say it doesn’t work – because it doesn’t for them… but I’m sure right and left brain would argue that theres scientific research saying it does. But if Bobby Joe Jim says it doesn’t help him, well – It Does Not Work, for him.
silly: i think you are on the wrong page. this is supposed to be about the footpads. as soon as somebody said that they do not work, accupuncure was brought up. now you give us cannabis. i too smoke for pain relief, but did not bring up the sublject. the claims made by the company that makes these foot pads can not be true. plain and simple
silly: there’s really no need for you to tell me what I’m going to argue. You’re engaging in a classic logical fallacy called a straw man argument.
What you describe about cannabis research is how research works? You study something, you make a conclusion, you study it some more, you make a new conclusion. If there is evidence for changing your mind, you do.
What evidence can you present that would change anyone’s mind about foot pads?
Incidentally, there are still people who believe the world is flat. Are we going to find out 100 years from now that they are right? I doubt it. Although, only through science could I be proven wrong.
“They put restrictions on claims you can make without evidence.” I would say drawing toxins out of the feet is a pretty big claim. One would think the FDA would find any way possible to put the money people are spending on the footpads into their own pockets. If I was a betting person, I would also assume that the public (scientists not being exempt) is not given all of the information regarding any drug or herb or the testing procedures/results of same. With that being said, your scientific explanations of why the footpads are a hoax are nothing more than a thorough and accurate book report of only the first three chapters of the book. (The FDA or whomever decided to keep the last few chapters for whatever reason.)
And what is with the advertising statement… “If you want a jaw-dropping look into scientific illiteracy in the world today, go check out our post.”
03-19-08@9:44 a.m.
Yes, drawing toxins out would be a big claim. And if a company had evidence that it worked, the FDA would not restrict them from publishing it. They just are restricted from saying it’s true if they can’t prove it.
Summersailin, I don’t understand this new “conspiracy” mode you’ve gotten into. Who specifically at the FDA is trying to get our money? The FDA does not exist to make money. They are funded by US taxpayers.
And what is this “book” you are talking about? Which book did we do a report on? An ISBN or Library of Congress number or some reference would be nice.
It seems there is nothing in your latest post that provides any evidence of anything. Have you ever found any evidence that footpads do anything that wasn’t written by someone who either sells them or bought them?
I’m not saying that’s HOW research works. I’m just saying you can’t exactly say “Joe Schmoe did 9 years of testing and found out that ‘it’ does not work” If billy bob howie said “‘it’ does work” and went totally against what joe schmoe says…noone can say that joe schmoe is right and billy bob howie is wrong and vice versa.
I’m not saying Acupuncture works and I’m not saying it doesn’t work. I’m not saying that the research done on acupuncture, stating that it’s a placebo effect, is wrong – i’m not saying it’s right..
I’m just saying – You can’t really tell someone that acupuncture does not work if 1) you’ve never tried it (not saying you did not) 2) if they TELL you it personally worked for them and others they know and 3)(and most importantly) you personally did not do the research you’re trying to use as an argument.
I used the cannabis research because it was totally off subject and can’t really be argued within the context of this thread because it doesn’t relate to the topic (i didn’t want to change the topic, just wanted to prove a point about “scientific research”)
I am a man that believes science over things like religion/belief. But you really have to take it with a grain of salt because you yourself didn’t do it and..really… science can only take you so far.. do you really think science can solve the question “what is the meaning of life?” i dont think so.. but people believe religion and this and that..who are any of us to say either one of those religions is wrong..its faith – blind as it may be
though I am a huge advocate of cannabis(for so many reasons other than recreation) I still take what was said in my previous post with a grain of salt (even though it strengthens my cause)
Noone in the world can tell billy bob howie that ‘it’ doesn’t work. Cancer is cured every day with happiness when every doctor seen says that person will die in x amount of time. The mind is more powerful than any of us can ever understand. If the mind believes acupuncture works – it will. Scientific research can’t get anywhere near touching anything dealing with that aspect. Is it a placebo? who cares – really, who cares? if it works, it works. let BBH pay money to have needles stuck into his pupils to cure the tumor in his brain to his leaky anus. Don’t tell BBH he’s full of it cause science says so. Science can’t explain the important things in life. What is love? What is the meaning of life? etc etc.
Please don’t take it as me saying anyone is wrong/right, smart/dumb.
Beauty
You are so literal. I should have known referencing a “book” that doesn’t exist would confuse you. As far as conspiracy goes, I just think some people don’t give all the angles a consideration. And you are right…there was no evidence of anything on my post. Sorry.
oh, and the FDA is silly. For sure.
Our bodies need a lot more than what they say when it comes to the DV% of vitamins and minerals…
aren’t they trying to make it so you can’t use anything they say is a “dietary supplement”? (or something to the effect in some way…i forget)
They won’t allow the wide spread use of Stevia – a flower concentrate – instead of sugar. Even though it’s a no calorie(or extremely low calorie) food, 300 times sweeter than sugar, doesn’t effect insulin levels, doesn’t rot your teeth, and is already used in other countries commercially like japan and such.
I’m not a conspiracy theorist…but it seems like they are trying to keep United States unhealthy..
Personally, I went on a huge and heavy supplementation regimen, extreme diet change, and exercise regimen. My DV% of vitamins for some were anywhere from 1600% to 7000% DV. Never felt better in my life. Slept longer, easier. Awoke brighter and more energetic. Digestion was on key. Thought faster, more clear, more precise. My muscles built faster and my endurance was extreme and mroe importantly I was a whole bunch happier and up beat (without trying to be)….just wish i could have afforded to keep that up..
Now that I’m back to my ways prior to that – it’s pretty depressing as in I’m normally feeling down (compared to the regimen, not saying I’m boohoo depressed).
Someone I don’t think should ever be trusted is governments of any kind and any organizations funded by such governments.
“There has never been a perfect government, because men have passions; and if they did not have passions,there would be no need for government”
@you’re all silly:
Re: “aren’t they trying to make it so you can’t use anything they say is a “dietary supplement”?” No, of course they’re not! (Why would they?) All they try to do is to stop companies from making claims about their supplements. (”This vitamin will treat your hypertension.” “This supplement will cure your cancer.”) Once you put claims like that on your label, the FDA classifies it as a drug, and it needs to go through years of rigorous testing.
Doesn’t stop charlatans from making insane claims; it takes the FDA years to hunt all the aholes down, though, so the creeps make hundreds of millions in the meantime from suckers before folding up their tents, moving on, and then producing some new quackery with which to part fools from their money.
Entertaining discussion to say the least. Here’s some thoughts. Having worked in clinical development a clinical trial may have a 40% improvement over other drugs, it may actually be a 1.4% vs 1% success rate. That can mean life or death for a heart patient if you’re in that 1.4%. Other “approved drugs” pass clinical trial but may only work for 40% of the population. Are either of these resounding successes backed by clinical data? If you’re not in the success class, you may have spent > $100 for drugs that don’t do anything for you, yet your doctor will prescribe them in hopes that it will.
Consider other things – I’ve read that scientific studies do confirm that prayer by sufficiently large groups has shown a statistically significant improvement in survival rates from illnesses. Is faith, God, or religion scientifically proven?
In martial arts, not all pain points work on all people, but having been immobilized by pain by a few higher degree black belts (w/o knowing they were black belts), I can say that I’ve been at the receiving end of accupressure that works.
I’ve had chiropractic treatment that has stopped pain when no drugs or physical therapy would. It hasn’t worked all the time, but I know it has, and when it works, it’s worth it.
All I can keep is an open mind for things that work for me. Personally, I can’t explain how prayer helps, a drug works (and some drug companies can’t either), accupressure, or skin removes toxins when the kidneys and liver can’t, but if it works, or just happens, you can and should be skeptical, but sometimes you accept it when you can’t explain it.
When I started reading this blog, I had already purchased and started experimenting with the pads. I appreciate all the comments, negative and otherwise. I do not feel that I wasted my money. I had no definite expectations other than it could have some effect. I understand your reluctance to accept that toxins are removed. I used them simultaneously on my husband who does not and has not taken any prescribed medications, only OTC when needed. I have taken anti-depressants, seizure medications,muscle relaxers, beta blockers, diueretics, steroids (oral and injected) et al agressively for pain relief, control, whatever…Beyond the thought that the toxins are excreted through the skin, think in terms of the ionizing factor and its affect on the function of all of our organs. I had excessive impurities in my urine the first two eliminations of the day following using the pads. It is normally clear and the reaction is not present on mornings I did not use the pads. I was invigorated more than normal upon waking. I did not tire throughout the day. I can accept the euphoria being psychological but not the physical signs. As far as accupuncture goes since that has been commented on, I did it 5x a week for three months. As long as the needles remained and I was under the heat lamps, the muscles relaxed and I was temporarily pain free. Same thing for water therapy, 91 degrees and I can function pain free. The thing with the pads, the following day besides being euphoric, I was not chilled and my blood circulation was better than usual. No numbness or tingling in extremities and as such no pain. For me, the pads offer some physical changes that are a plus. I personally will purchase again, not for everyday use but periodically until I do not notice any effect that appears to be positive for me.
Cece, arn’t you at all worried about why you feel so invigorated? I used to snort cocaine, and let me tell you, i felt great. My point is that without the tests, there is no telling what is making you feel so good.
Also, if bamboo vinegar is the chief agent, wouldn’t it be cheaper to just soak your feet in it for some time?
bamboo vinegar and tourmaline along with herbs. Do I think its like cocaine? don’t know never tried. I have taken prescribed drugs that did have drastic side effects including throwing lamps across rooms in my sleep, almost bludeoning my husband with an imaginary whatever, and being in a halucinagenic state pretty much most the time. I have already been used as a human guinea pig by experts. For the same reason you say it can’t be excreted, you say it can be absorbed through the skin? The euphoria is more than likely from the ion properties of the tourmaline. Read up on it. I don’t know everything about eastern medicine, but I am reading up on it.
Star – thank you
I have an opinion on western medicine. I believe it is governed by the government and pharmeceutical companies. I believe the eastern medicines have some validity, maybe not for all, but it has been working for hundreds of years for somethings.
I have been dealing with multiple clerosis for 20 years, if something could make me feel better (not cure) doesn’t it make sense to try it after doing ALOT of research on it.
Another thought is that Native Americans used herbs for natural wellness, but when the white man came into their territory they brought much disease. Thereby needing to use the herbs for health. It worked for them.
I am open to learning what I can about natural remedies, after all, it worked for those that lived by it, why not us?
Biology101, placebo effect, 90 – 95% accuracy … blah, blah, blah.
How many times have we (the public) heard claims that an FDA-approved drug works only then to be yanked from the market because “oops” scientists have NOW linked it to (fill in the blanks)? Are we “scientifically illiterate” if we purchased that once-approved, scientifically-studied drug?
Even today we hear of Lipitor having a possible link to Alzheimer’s, aspartame having a possible link to cancer, immunizations having a possible link to autism…
I believe people living in China and Japan have a greater life expectancy than those living in America. Aren’t they more into herbal remedies vs. synthetic drug? Could it be that you are the illiterate ones?
scientific illiterate made the only truly scientific statement, that is that science itself is fallible and the unknown is often plausible. Bravo !!!
what we don’t understand we call a placebo effect. What if you believe the foot pads help you and you actually get well ? Does it matter what you call it if it works for someone.
It’s truly unfortunate that the initial investigation into this product on this website went no further than a single company’s marketing hype.
There is a lot of misinformation about this product which I guess is understandable considering the industry in North America is dominated by MLMs that use questionable marketing tactics.
Kinoki is a late-comer to the party, this product has been available in America for almost 15 years – and closer to 25 years in Japan.
But this whole thread is based on a faulty premise … it assumes that drawing toxins out of the feet is in fact the correct way to describe how the product works – it isn’t.
Bottom line: just because the marketing hype is accurately described as BS – it does not necessarily follow that the product is ineffective or has no benefit.
First – the colour change … the ingredients of these products react to liquid (any liquid) by turning colour – including sweat from the feet, or tap water for that matter; however, this is not an indication of the amount or type of toxins that may or may not be present.
Unfortunately there are enough regular users out there who absolutely insist that this colour change is the toxins leaving their body (wishful thinking? desparate hope? blind acceptance?) that it’s difficult for reputable companies to “market” the truth – at least in North America.
And so most detox pad brands make this claim because it panders to both zealous customers as well as undiscriminating first-time shoppers swayed by a good photo. It is an easier way to sell volume than selling the truth because consumers still do not do enough research.
Some companies even go so far as to add non-effective ingredients like pearlite, in order to make the colour change even more dramatic – adding red and yellow spots for example. Other companies add ingredients like mushroom which may be effective when ingested, but do nothing when placed against the skin – all in the name of marketing. And then there’s the ultimate insult – the so-called addition of “negative ions.” Companies behaving in this way are not merely responding to the market, they are callously misleading the consumer in a that could seriously damage the reputation of a product that for many people has real value.
Sweating is a natural process that will expel some toxins to be sure; however this is not the basis for the efficacy of this type of product.
The key “ingredient” of this category of product is the emission of far-infrared radiation at body temperature. That’s it. If you believe in the therapeutic benefits of far-infrared, then you might want to give this product a try. If not – save your money.
On the soles of the feet it is believed the far-infrared stimulates the meridians that run through them (thereby enhancing the body’s natural detoxification processes) … so if you believe in the therapeutic benefits of both far-infrared and reflexology, then you should definitely give the product a try.
Some detox patch companies suggest using the pads to reduce swelling and pain – again, a result of the far-infrared – and there are early indications that some therapists are using these pads to improve the condition of autistic children. Other uses I’ve heard about include everything from first-aid for bee stings to the prevention of migraines.
The fact is there is only one ingredient that is necessary for this product to work, and it is powderized pyroligneous acid, often referred to as wood-vinegar powder.
Wood vinegar is not, as some companies suggest, the product of wood sap, but instead is manufactured by carbonizing wood (burning at high temperature and in the absence of oxygen – the result is charcoal) and then condensing the smoke into a liquid. This is done under very precise temperature control in order to eliminate the other toxic elements inherent to wood smoke, from the wood vinegar.
This condensate is then distilled a number of times (or should be) and stored where over time it settles into layers of differing quality liquid. The second highest grade (cosmetic grade – there is also an edible grade) is used to create the powder for detox patches. The liquid is then dried into a powder which also includes additional materials like a starch and other binding ingredients, and sometimes powdered tourmaline or germanium.
The best source wood is oak and cedar because the moisture content can be easily regulated with those woods – and moisture control is a critical factor in producing high-quality pyroligneous acid.
A number of companies claim to use bamboo vinegar (including Kinoki) … and although bamboo certainly has the “image” of the orient, it does not make particularly good pyroligneous acid because a) it is not wood, it’s a form of grass, and b) it is much more difficult to regulate it’s moisture content. It is however very fast growing, especially compared to trees, and therefore much less expensive to use.
Pyroligneous acid has been used for centuries in agricultural applications and more recently in the cosmetic and health industries as the distillation processes have become more effective with resultant better quality.
The production of cosmetic grade pyroligneous acid is an expensive and high tech process and requires a large factory, automated process controls and significant technical knowlegde and resources. It is not something that takes place in a basement.
The only true way to assess the benefits of detox pads is to do before and after tests – hair, nails, etc … and perhaps more importantly, to determine if you feel better or not.
good comments, however there is an equal amount of tourmaline in the product. Research those properties as used in eastern medicine.
Regarding the presence of sweat or water affecting the color, I imagine the majority will have the normal responses. I experimented and added tap water and RO water to the pads and sealed them in a plastic bag. The result resembled the pads my husband used. Mine did not. They did not just change color. I had an enormous amount of unknown substances a.) Black tar, very thick and oily b.)Clear thick mucous resembling vaseline c.) orange crystalized mounds. These substances extended past the padded area. These pads are not for everyone, but I don’t think you are being truthful suggesting it is a hoax because you cannot scientifically explain the process or predict the people who will benefit the most from its use.
Further to my post above, and specifically in response to Cece.
I am very familiar with this category of product and in addition to using them for the past four years, I am in regular contact with one of the major manufacturers … I am most assuredly a believer in their effectiveness. My only interest here is to ensure that the myths are debunked – on both sides of the equation.
But unfortunately there are many, many myths associated with the introduction of this product into North America … I for one think that this needs to be stopped.
So … assuming you accept the therapeutic value of far infrared (FIR)how can the discriminating customer know if a pad is high quality or a charlatan?
The key is to ask specific questions if the answers are not readily available … and if the answers are not forthcoming, you may be excused for making a negative inference.
HOW BIG (Size matters) A larger pad will emit more FIR for longer. A high quality detox pad will typically be 5.5 to 6 grams in weight compared to the cheap ones that are usually 3 to 3.5 grams – and often that includes a foil backing that not only “masks” the true, lower weight of the product, but in fact shortens its effective life.
HOW MUCH PYROLIGNEOUS ACID: this is the only ingredient that counts for anything. In a high quality pad the ingredients are typically proportioned as follows: 60% pyroligneous acid powder (the charlatans can be as little as 2% to 3% – sorry, not all are created equal)10% starch product, often lecithin … 20% sorbitol or similar … other non essential ingredients like tourmaline, germanium, grapefruit, green tea, glucosamine, etc, etc etc, are provided at 2 or 3% to match the requirement of the brand marketer. There is a case to be made that tourmaline or germanium enhances the FIR effect, but the manufacturers testing suggest it is too little to be noticeable.
So Cece to your point, a real cheap product will indeed have the same proportion of tourmaline as pyroligneous acid (at 2 or 3% each) however this is clearly not desirable.
CHITOSAN: Another dead giveaway of a cheap product is the addition of chitin or chitosan (a shellfish product), which despite the claims is only used to preserve the product and to prevent bacterial growth. As pyroligneous acid is in fact a natural anti bacterial and preservative, any product with a substantial amount of it will not need an additional anti bacterial agent.
NON-ESSENTIAL INGREDIENTS: Some brands may contain mushrooms, eucalyptus or other ingredients, however they do not effect the emission of FIR and so do not contribute to the pads’ effectiveness. While these other ingredients might have benefits when taken internally, they have not been shown to have any effect when worn outside the body. Beware of brands that extol the virtue of these ingredients when included in their detox pads – it is most likely they are there to disguise the fact that they have very little pyroligneous acid.
KNOW THE COUNTRY OF ORIGIN: Japan and S. Korea, in addition to having well-established and longstanding detox pad industries, also have industrial and health product standards not unlike those we have here – IMO any product made in these countries – cheap or otherwise – could well be considered safe to use. However, brands made in countries like China or Indonesia or India, may not have the same standards in quality and ingredient control. There have been unsubstantiated reports of products that contain glycol (reportedly used in place of sorbitol) and other undesirable ingredients.
There’s much more to know about these products, but that’s probably enough for now.
Got curious about this here “Pyroligneous acid.” After Wikipedia told me only that “it has been promoted as a natural aid for various uses including detoxification, mild pain relief, and to sterilize and promote healing of minor wounds. These claims may be of questionable value,” I went looking for more, and lo! The U.S. Geological Survey Toxic Substances Hydrology Program (toxics.usgs.gov) tells us “It is a dark, reddish-brown liquid that is composed mostly of acetic acid, but also contains methanol (wood alcohol), acetone, wood oils, and tars in varying amounts.”
I’ve thought the foot pad-wearers were wasting their money, but now I think they’re hurting themselves, what with absorbing methanol, acetone, who-knows-what kind of wood oils, and tar. Eeeeep! Maybe *that’s* what’s causing the (apparent) euphoria. Maybe it’s like absinthe: you’ll feel terrific right up until your brain turns into pudding!
If, in fact, pyroligneous acid really IS in these foot pads, I beg users to reconsider using them. That’s a l of scary things to be putting into your body.
With all due respect Lipstick Face you haven’t done nearly enough research to be making any recommendations.
The descriptions you quote date back to the late 1800’s when indeed pyroligneous acid had those qualities and only those qualities. And wikipedia, although a wonderful tool, is generally only as good as the people making entries into it … and as we all know by now pyroligneous acid is not well known or understood in North America … and conversely there aren’t too many Japanese or Korean nationals contributing to the English version.
What’s different now is the modern computerized factories that refine pyroligneous acid (not here of course, but in Korea and Japan) into a number of different quality grades including those some used for cosmetics.
These modern refining processes remove all the harmful ingredients.
The proof of this is in the approval in Japan and Korea of an edible grade pyroligneous acid – purportedly for good digestion, but apparently it is well-known as a popular hangover remedy.
I beleive your intentions are good — but, as with the originators of this thread – you I believe prove that a little bit of knowledge (or a little bit of research) is a dangerous thing.
In the past quarter-century in Japan and Korea, products based on the “new” pyrolgneous acid have grown in multi-billion dollar industries with products readily available at drugstores on every corner.
I’m sure the residents of these countries care not if we off-handedly dismiss their accepted products as scams or worse, dangerous … but that does a disservice to those here who might benefit from them.
skeptical, so the U.S. Geological Survey Toxic Substances Hydrology Program is wrong to be listing pyroligneous acid? They haven’t done nearly enough research to be making any recommendations? Their description dates back to the late 1800s? Ihaftatake your word over theirs?
Lipstick Face: “Pyroligneous acid is a byproduct of the production of charcoal from wood. It is a dark, reddish-brown liquid that is composed mostly of acetic acid, but also contains methanol (wood alcohol), acetone, wood oils, and tars in varying amounts. Pyroligneous acid is also known as wood vinegar.”
That is the sum total of the USGS Toxic Substances listing – which is not far different from what I posted.
They make no suggestion that the toxic substances can’t be refined out … they make no recomendations about not using it, or not using it in commercial products … and no, beyond creating the definition they have not done their research because they are not mandated to do so with respect to the commercialisation of chemicals.
Their mandate is to “the timely, relevant, and impartial study of the landscape, our natural resources, and the natural hazards that threaten us.”
It was your assumption that pad wearers were at risk of absorbing methane or acetone – not their’s. In fact there is no risk because these elements are refined out of cosmetic and edible grade pyroligneous acid as I described in an early post.
The first sentence of your second paragraph exposes your bias, the first sentence of your last paragraph clearly indicated to me that you do not know anything more about this product than you have probably read in this post – and the vast majority of it is misinformed. Hence my characterization of your post.
You don’t have to take my word for anything – but everything I state can be easily fact checked (easier if you read Korean or Japanese to be sure) – so rather than create absurd scenarios of peoples’ brains turning to pudding, perhaps you could do some more research and counter my assertions with real facts and not wild speculation.
Thank you Skeptical. I also went to the usgs site and was obviously not smart enough to find anything specifically derogatory about bamboo vinegar.
Lipstick face, don’t use the pads.
You cannot have it both ways. If the skin is able to absorb substances, it is also able to release them. Stop reading scientific surveys on waste products and start reading about the medicinal practices of various cultures. You absolutely do not ever have to use any of them. By the way, they have been used long before the 1800’s. There are many books, and none are trying to necessarily sell you anything except better living.
You’re welcome … it is unlikely the USGS would have a listing for bamboo charcoal vinegar because it was never manufactured here. Or it could be that it falls under a more generic description of pyroligneous acid.
Bamboo is a wonderful material and will become more and more significant as wood stocks dwindle … in most applications it is a very viable alternative to wood and it’s charcoal also has some excellent qualities.
For the purpose of the detox pads however it is the emission of far-infrard energy that’s important … and it is my understanding that slow-growth trees like oak and mandarin store more of the sun’s energy and therefore emit more of the far infrard.
That is the only criteria by which I would say that for this application specifically, bamboo vinegar is not as good as wood vinegar from oak, mandarin or cedar.
I’m not totally swayed either way on the the foot patch detox .But let me say this I was given a few patches 6 of them to try by my sister in law .I suffer from planters feet very painful at times both feet hurt so I expermented using the 6 patches for 6 nights on my right foot . I do feel relief from using them but i’m not pain free yet .I would like to see before and after lab test on the ingredents of the contents .To see if after use there were minerals and toxins in it that were not there before use. But I know your skin is like a screen you can sweat and absorb though it a lot of todays medicines are given in patch form. After spending time in water your skin becomes water logged looking pale and wrinkled.
The scientific method would be to buy 2 or 3 sets and try them. Then see if the dark color gets lighter. This would be difficult to explain if it were simply some chemical reaction hoax.
03-30-08 10:19EDT
To fauncemil and Dennis Lee … it’s easy to understand why you might not have read the whole thread, but I do recommend you scroll up a bit and read my two or three other posts.
This thread and the “brains” conclusion was based on a faulty premise (I notice none of the brains have posted since I exposed this).
Footpads change colour when exposed to liquid – any liquid – and it is not due to toxins leaving through the feet.
That is not to say however that the pads have no effect – they do – simply not the way Kinoki (and others to be fair) is marketing them.
I have been using the pads for four years and I am in regular direct contact with a major manufacturer of this product in S.Korea – I know as well as any layman does the theory behind the value of the product, as well as the intricacies of the manufacturing process.
Feel free to post your questions and I will do my best to answer them.
EDIT – Note: Comments on this post have been closed due to the fact that they are slowing down the system. If you would like to discuss the topic further, go to the Kinoki Foot pad discussion on our forum.
Skeptical
We haven’t responded because you haven’t provided any proof for anything you say. Your opinion and heresay means nothing. I don’t think you’ve added anything significant to the conversation beyond your own, unsupported opinion.
For example, you say the footpads will change color when exposed to “any” liquid. What’s your proof of this? Certainly you haven’t tested every liquid possible so what liquids does it react with and not?
I say that your conclusions are based on a faulty premise. The idea that these footpads work though “far-infrared radiation” is far fetched. Where is your proof that these pads emit an appreciable amount of FIR? And where is the proof that this FIR has any beneficial effect? We’re supposed to take your opinion for this. Please provide some peer-reviewed research. And the ideas of meridians is just silly. There’s no proof that the body has such thing. You’re explaining the “science” of a fairy tale. It’s hardly worth responding to.
Incidentally, there is no Pyroligneous Acid listed in the INCI dictionary so to say that there is a cosmetic grade is not correct. (At least not in the US or EU).
Dennis, it would not be difficult to explain through a chemical reaction.
Well, all I can say is that I’ve used them several times now. The skin on the bottom of my foot seems softer and smoother. Also, several tiny planter warts seem to be getting smaller
EDIT: Note – Comments on this post have been closed due to the fact that they are slowing down the system. If you would like to discuss the topic further, go to the Kinoki Foot pad discussion on our forum.
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