Elizabeth asks…Hi! I’m new to this site, but was impressed by the thorough analysis done on other products.
My daughter is selling NYR Organic bodycare products and I was wondering if any here have tried it, and would be interested in hearing an analysis from the brains of the group! I’m not a hardcore organic person, but was impressed at how quickly a small 3rd degree burn healed when I used their lavender oil on it, and then I went to a “practice party” that my daughter did, I was able to check out a few more products. As a good mom would, I am scheduled to host a party, but I am more interested in the analysis of the product before I make any kind of investment in it.
Left Brain launches:
So sorry about the delay in answering, Liz, we are working hard on meeting our deadline for our new Beauty Brains book. But I thought I’d take time out to answer this one since enlightening people to the realities of multi-level marketing (e.g. Arbonne) is one of my favorite things to do.
So, your question is basically….Should you invest in NYR Organic?
NYR Organic products
I’ve never used NYR Organic products but you can learn a lot about a product by reviewing the ingredient list. It turns out that they use the same ingredients that everyone else uses. In the cosmetic industry, nearly everyone has access to the same ingredients and ingredient suppliers. Bigger companies will sometimes get exclusive deals, but it’s rare that anyone can gain an advantage by the source of their raw materials. NYR Organic is no different.
As a quick example, look at their Rose Body Cream
You can click the link for the full list but basically the formula is water, emulsifier (glyceryl stearate) and an oil phase (cetearyl alcohol, Lanolin alcohol, Shea butter, etc). It’s probably a fine formula as they no doubt work with some excellent cosmetic chemists. But this formula isn’t any better than something like Burt’s Bees body butter. And at $36 for 5.2 ounces, NYR Organic doesn’t even compare in value to Burt’s Bees product at $13 for 6.6 ounces.
Of course, even Burt’s isn’t even as good a value as something like Neutrogena Body Cream at $7.70 for 6 ounces.
But the point is, there is nothing about NYR Organic formulas that makes them superior to other, less expensive products you can buy. And if you find the natural / organic story compelling, then Burt’s Bees, JASON, or any of the other host of “natural / organic” products you can buy at regular stores will be a better value.
NYR Organic Sales System
I do not know any more about this company than what I’ve read on their website. However, from your description of hosting parties and “investing” in the products, it sounds very much like a system of distribution called Network Marketing or Multi-Level Marketing. In this system, they get “consultants” to buy products, sell them to their friends & family, and then try to get the “consultants” to convert their friends into consultants who will then give them a kickback on every sale.
The whole system is very much like a pyramid scheme in which no one (except the people who started the company) really makes any significant money. Of course, it’s not an illegal pyramid scheme because product is actually produced and sold.
Before you invest any money in this company or any other, be sure to read this information about Multi-level Marketing.
And if the guy at Skeptoid doesn’t make you think twice, read what the FTC has to say about Multilevel Marketing.
Beauty Brains Bottom line
Should you buy into the NYR Organic system and become a consultant? Ultimately, you have to decide this for yourself. But if the reasons are because the products are something special (they aren’t) or that you’ll make a lot of money (you won’t), then you’ll be best served by skipping this “opportunity”.
What do you think about multilevel marketing opportunities? Have you joined and made money? Leave a comment below and let the other Beauty Brains community members know.
{ 23 comments… read them below or add one }
I have been following Beauty brain for a long period of time and because of wanting to know more about the fact’s about the skincare products, I took up a diploma course in Cosmetics Science.
Now, I am a independent distributor in Forever Living Products. This company is the largest grower, manufacturer and distributor of Aloe Vera in the world. I choose this company is because they emphasize a lot of the quality of the products. Forever Living is one of the companies where Aloe Vera is the 1st ingredient in all of their Skincare products.
Forever Living Products have offices in 140 countries and going into our 32 years of operating.
I just want to make known to all that most of the MLM companies are only the top making the most money. However, there are a handful of companies, like Forever Living, are doing their best to educate the public on the right concept of MLM and deliver the best quality of products.
Before joining any MLM company, it is very important to study their company background, their marketing plan and their quality of products. The most important if the MLM company have a education system to guide you how to do business. Not everyone is gifted to do business, however it can be taught.
Learn how to identify a right MLM company, you will benefit much more from it.
Jasmine from Singapore.
Brain – you missed it – on the bottom of the NYL site, you can see a little note “Neal’s Yard”….
Not sure what note you’re talking about. Can you include a link?
Hmm…Neal’s Yard appears to be the parent company. And, unlike Christa, they seem to be a pretty bad parent.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/devon/7385718.stm
http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2008/04/neals-yard-remedies-offers-lethal.html
Hi Christa,
The Beauty Brains is right…. NYR’s products are not totally natural, yet alone organic. Their products include synthetic chemicals or chemically processed naturally derived ingredients like Sodium lauroyl sarcosinate, Cocamidopropyl betaine, which I noticed in the face wash and Coco-glucoside, Ammonium lauryl sulfate and hydroxypropyltrimonium chloride in the Rose Shampoo. As for some of the products that claim to be 95% organic (like the baby lotion), it is probable that they are counting water content, infused with weak “tea bags” of organic herbs which is kind of “cheating the system” in order to get by using organic as a marketing term.
Its so frustrating and confusing to sort through marketing claims used in natural and organic body care products. I understand as I have been there many times myself. Here is a very helpful and informative UTube video on Certified Organic Products created by the founder of Miessence product line with information on how to spot “real organic” vs. “fake organic” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pP68RWCQECM (you can copy and paste this link into your browser)
Since “Natural” and “organic” claims abound with no regulations on those terms, companies are free to use them as they wish. Really the only way to validate these claims is to bring products for personal care up to the standards of organic food.
If you or your daughter are interested in natural and organic products, then be sure to look for products certified to organic food standards. If the product is certified organic by the USDA, ACO (Australia Certified Organic), JAS (Japans Agricultural Standards) or other international government bodies to food grade standards then there is no ingredient allowed that would not be allowed in certified organic food. Literally safe enough to eat! Any certified organic product contains (excluding water and salt) at least 95% organically produced agricultural ingredients. The remaining ingredients (up to 5%) can be non-agricultural substances or non-organically produced agricultural ingredients, with strict processing criteria (eg. absolutely no GMOs or synthetics chemicals).
If your daughter enjoys sharing products with family and friends and working in an MLM structure then have her visit my site and contact me about Miessence. They are an amazing company with products that are CERTIFIED TO ORGANIC FOOD STANDARDS. Truly natural, truly organic and exceptionally effective. In addition, it is also worth mentioning that Miessence certified organic products are 100% bioactive, meaning there is no water added to the formulations as “filler”. You are getting a highly concentrated, highly potent product. Miessence offers a patented cold formulation to protect the integrity of the ingredients with no heating in the processing. So the precious organic nutrients and oils are preserved and shipped off fresh. Products should be used within 6 months since no chemical preservatives are used to make the shelf life years and years.
As for MLMs companies, I completely agree with the post above from Jasmine. If you do your homework on the company, on the product quality and the support offered, there really is no way to lose. Of course there is no such thing as “easy money” – time and effort are the only way to grow a business.
For the products visit:
http://www.organicglow.com
Best to you,
Alison
I have to say, I have been in love with Neal’s Yard products for many years. I’m American, but every time I go to London I stock up on some of their moisturizers and cleansers. In London, the prices are VERY reasonable, especially for real deal organic products. They even tell you what percentage of the product is organic (e.g. 99%, 22%, etc.). There are comparable products out there, but I love some of Neal’s Yard products more than some comparable ones–it’s all personal preference.
Now, I must say I am buying from a consultant here in the U.S. Am I happy about it? Yes and no. I can get the products at a decent price (slightly more than I’d pay in England in many cases), and the shipping is reasonable. I really don’t like the MLM structure, and my consultant could be quicker. Still, I’m happy I can get the products.
Don’t worry about that homeopathy stuff. Many people use homeopathy (and many farm animals are treated homeopathically) with great success. So there was a controversy about one offering. Big deal. Their skin care products are still my favorites and worth every penny!
Oops, I forgot to add. Burt’s Bees body cream cannot be accurately compared to Neal’s Yard (and I do like a lot of BB’s products). BB uses fragrance in many of their products–fragrance that sticks with you all day. Some of them give me a headache. Neal’s Yard is natural and they don’t add fragrance or anything artificial to their skin care line.
It’s me again. I just went looking for some Neal’s Yard reviews, almost all of which (not surprisingly) are positive. Here’s a sampling:
http://www.yelp.co.uk/biz/neals-yard-remedies-london-5
Not sure how old the sources are that were used for your research on Neal’s Yard Remedies. In the late 90s the Kindersley family bought the company from Romy Fraiser. Neal’s Yard, and hence NYR Organic, know the source of their ingredients and are very strict with how they are produced. The company is currently a signer with Safe Cosmetics and is following the precautionary principle. The products are certified by the Soil Association. It is worth checking out the company with current information and facts.
It’s good to have a belief in what–and WHO you represent…I’m all for it–BUT! let’s get the facts v/s opinionated bias–once and for all! Neal’s Yard Remedies is NOT comparable to Burts Bee’s, nor it’s marketing to Arbonne!! No way no how! Paallleezze! Neal’s Yard Remedies/NYR Organic’s organic is the first personal care brand in Britain to be certified by the prestigious Soil Association, while Burt’s Bees uses what they call, 99.99% Natural–and in the US of A that means SQUAT! Across the board, “natural” is anything and everything BUT organic; ie., water, clay is natural–get it? The rest of it is not organic unless it is “certified”/Burt’s Bees and other commercial, inferior–YES! I said INFERIOR–brands don’t specify what plant ingredient is organic on their labeling, because it isn’t! Neal’s Yard Remedies really is organic. And, if there is any “point” to all of this bullocks, it is that–if BB had any brains, she would have tried the products before she made such stupid statements like, there is “nothing about NYR Organic that makes them superior..(etc)”;) I’m with Michelle–either UPDATE and get your facts straight, or take this stale attempt at debunking off the internet, or…?
It’s ok Edna! You did good. You need not try and convince someone who has actually tried or, better yet uses Neal’s Yard Remedies, has some knowledge of the brand and knows, across the board, what’s in it; we who do, know that it’s better than anything from Burt’s Bees in comparison to quality, or for pity’s sake..Neutrogena for price? What about quality? Why would you want to go there? Why not Ponds instead. We seem to be all over the map all of the sudden! You and Michele did a good job in standing up to the opposition’s propaganda. I’ve decided that Burt’s Bees must’ve used the anonymous ‘Left Brain’ as the model for its logo! That’s a cat with a chip on its shoulder if I ever…hiss, hiss…ouch! That just about sums it up for me…I’m outta here:this is nuts! Soil Not Oil…Peace everyone.
It worries me about all the people who put lock, stock, and barrel into these pyramid schemes. Some of them are great products but others are here today and gone tomorrow and the people at the bottom who are recruiting all of the consumers are the ones losing the money and the people at the top are counting their millions. If your product is so wonderful, why not put it on the open market and let superiority speak for itself.
Neal’s Yard Remedies has 38 high street retail shops throughout the UK, 14 in Japan and 2 in Dubai. Does that make a distinction between, what I assume you meant to say was the thing you feared was a “MLM” scheme, DJC? Because pyramid schemes are illegal, mind you! NYR Organic is not an MLM either. The business plan for its independent Consultants in America, is called Direct Sales. I have personally visited 3 Neal’s Yard Remedies shops in London, and I can tell you–what a pleasurable experience it was! And, I am by no means alone in saying this; especially, the original one in Covent Garden in Neal’s Yard, (hence, the name), in Central London. Before the name was changed, it was called, Neal’s Yard Apothecary, btw…You really must visit one if you ever travel to London or the British Isles, Deborah. The home party, direct sales–NOT pyramid scheme, ok–plan for America, since it’s launch a year ago, is designed to deliver a similar, presonalised quality facial spa experience, by using the same “remedies” as the shops do in their “therapy rooms” in many of their shop locations but self-administered by the spa party guests and in the comfort of the home environment. Now doesn’t that sound better than a NASTY old pyramid scheme Deborah? Well it’s the truth! How much more “open” can than the market get than that? Or, would you rather drive to an over-crowded shopping mall and wait in line to buy lesser quality beauty care, laden with parabens and gawd knows what else to put your health at risk…and spend more money and time, and then drive back home with a headache from traffic and sore feet from walking all around dept. stores? I don’t think so! If I may, please allow me to tell you how you can find a Neal’s Yard Remedies Consultant in America, so you can have the UK store at your door! It’s very, very simple..you can do so by going to: us.nyrorganic.com
I need to make this clear before you start reading – I am a consultant direct-selling NYROrganic products in the UK. It seems that a few of those commenting on this thread might be consultants for other companies but have not declared it. Of course, we’re all going to have our own brand loyalty, so you can expect what follows to be biased…
I have a master’s degree in chemistry, and was careful to do the research into NYR’s chemical ethics before I joined them this summer. There is no other direct-selling skincare company in Britain that is in any way comparable to NYR. The reasons this is true that mattered to me are as follows (in order of importance):
1. The products are certified organic by the Soil Association. (This has already been mentioned in the thread, I know). The SA’s standards are extremely stringent and hard to meet. Nothing like ordinary UK5 certification, which means very little in comparison. Take a look at the SA’s website to learn more. It means, for example, that if NYR state something is 95% organic, it is, because the independent Soil Association will test it. Some ingredients like water and clay cannot be certified organic by the SA or anyone else in the UK, and these are often large percentage ingredients, so that “95% Organic” on the label isn’t skewed by a lot of water.
2. NYR is a tiny company. If I have a question about a product, I can email the enquiries office (25 miles from my home) and get an answer the same day.
3. These items are made by hand in a carbon-neutral (also certified as such) factory in my own country. Want to spend your way out of a recession? Support workers in your own country then. Pay the wage of your neighbour instead of some child-exploiting sweatshop manager in India. Sorry if this comment upsets anyone. It’s supposed to – think about what you’re putting on your skin and where it comes from.
4. My friends and family have much the same values as I do, so they’ll buy more NYR products, supporting a company with good values and helping it to prosper. I read the article about homeopathy. Yes, that was a PR disaster for some imbecile in NYR, but if you believe in homeopathy, then it might work for you as a malaria preventative in the same way that it’s supposed to work against many other aches, pains and illnesses. Part of living in the wonderful Western world is being able to enjoy the freedom of choosing your own medicine. My personal regret over this issue is that there appears to be no regulation over (ditto the skincare industry) the multi-million-pound homeopathy industry to make practitioners tell people that their “medicines” may or may not work. On the other hand, conventional medicine doesn’t work for everyone.
Regarding direct-selling. NYR seem to offer a good package for the consultant compared to some other companies I looked into. Direct selling is a difficult business to make money from, no matter who you choose as your sponsor company. NYR at least don’t require you to do anything at all after joining, so there’s no penalty if you decide it’s not for you. However, all companies are out to make money for themselves and their shareholders (owner in NYR’s case) and if there’s an opportunity for them to get the Consultant to spend their wages with the company rather than someone else, why shouldn’t they take it? That’s business. It’s up to the Consultant to be careful and maximise his/her profits by thinking of time as money – be frugal with it. I have made *some* money from selling. The next two months will be my busy and profitable time. The reason I’m with NYR is not primarily to make money. It’s to have fun, make friends and gain some independence and self-assurance by running my own successful business. That has definitely happened, with the help and support of my “upline”, so from my point of view, jump right in and enjoy it. Good luck and thanks everyone for your comments.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but products such as those formulated by Neals Yard, do not belong on anyone’s skin. Why? Essential oils serve no place in skin care. Essential oils cause dermatitis, photo-toxicity and cell death. This all leads to premature aging and collagen breakdown of the skin. I know that they may have a lovely texture, feel and fragrance, but unfortunately such products are threatening. Really, would you use poison ivy on your skin?
@TW, I am not even going to justify your ridiculous comment with a direct reply! What I will say for the benefit of others reading this stream is that…plants, herbs, fruits, vegetables and oils extracted from nuts and seeds have been used for all types of skin maintenance, disorders and for anti-aging for centuries, just in case there are any of you in doubt after the (rather inane) statement that precedes this–of which I am proud to say–educated one. The preparation of plant-derived lotions, unguents, (herbal ointments), and the science behind pure essential oils of various kinds made by an apothecary, or by the more enlightened purveyors of natural beauty care products, are tried and true and have been scientifically proven effective over the centuries to this day and age for a reason! Lavender is an extremely effective pain reliever for minor cuts and headaches; yarrow was used in Roman times to staunch wounds on the battlefield; frankincense is called the Pearl of the Desert, Jojoba oil is one of the most cherished anit-aging, skin rejuvinating desert plants known to man (and woman); and, furthermore, cartouches found in 3,000 yr. old pyramids attest to the fact that it was used as a mask to “banish wrinkles”…NOW WHO YA GONNA BELIEVE? SERIOUSLY PEOPLE!
I was referring to frankincense, of course, near the last bit of my comment. The combination of frankincense and myrrh have been scientifically proven, (what is commonly referred to as ‘green science’), to “support” collagen and elastin. Also, Neal’s Yard Remedies are involved in ongoing research programs with Kingston and Metropolitan Universities, in testing the beneficial properties of plants and herbs; one of which, white tea, has proven to be among the most effective in preventing the breakdown of collagen and elastin of all herbs tested so far. Thank you for the forum Beauty Brains. Keep up the good work for us.
Thank you to the educated people in the crowd for your thoughtful comments!
I read this blog and was absolutely astounded that someone could make such wide ranging assumptions based on No facts.
I have been using NYR products for 20 years in my therapy business – and joined them to sell the products last year. They are a 31 year old brand that was started by a herbalist who kept the business and its values true to its roots. Where possible the ingredients are grown and processed on NYRs own organic farms – and they work with Co-operatives around the world to source other ingredients from sustainable sources and communities.
If you look on my web site http://www.naturalselforganic.co.uk and look on information and view the videos you will find information regarding sourcing and ethics of the company as a whole. Ingredients are ALL from plant sources – yes there are still LITERALLY one or two that are made form heat treated and processed plant material – but they are TTOALY organic and natural and NO GMO, silicates, petrol or fragrances AT ALL. I have actually been to the farms and factory and spoken to the forumation team AND Peter Kidersley who runs the company now with his family. his ethics and morals are TOTALLY About sustainability, safe and healthy – and he is strict on a precautionary principle of if there is the slightest doubt on an ingredient or source then it cannot be used – (which is why we STILL dont have a mascara as they cant make it stay on long enough at present without using a fixative which they REFUSE TO do even though it would increase sales)
I dont say that because I sell these products – but as i joined BECAUSE I believed in them. YES it is a direct selling model – because the attitude of the company is that people sell products because they believe in them and more importantly because they have worked for them. The commission paid in such systems is the people work to train and build team, investing time and energy so that people know the FACTS not the type of rubbish spouted here. And that commission is LESS than normally a big company would pay out on a mass advertising campaign.
If anyone wants to ask any questions or wants any facts then feel free to email me on dave@naturalself.co.uk – and if i dont know it can get the information from the company they have a very open policy and have not yet refused to answer anything that people didnt understand.
Hello,
I wanted to post a few facts on the varying certification standards (including Soil Association) for consumers who are trying to decide what products are the best fit for what they are looking for in skincare/bodycare.
I disclosed in my earlier post that I sell food grade certified organic products myself, but will mention it again here before I start.
1. Soil Association is one of the various organic cosmetic certifications. These organic cosmetic standards are all slightly different in what they allow and don’t allow, but all are far less strict than the food grade organic certification that can be earned by skincare or bodycare that meets the standards (those products display the same seals you see on your organic food). Of the organic cosmetic standards, Soil Association is considered one of the “more strict”, but it still allows synethetics and chemical preservatives in the formulation (not allowed in a food grade organic product). Soil Association also plainly states that they allow synthetic preservatives like phenoxyethanol and sodium dehydroacetate(again not allowed in a food grade organic product). For those who want additional details on the different allowances of the various cosmetic certifications there is a great chart on the Organic Consumers Association website which gives “star ratings” and a brief overview of standards including Soil Assoc. http://www.organicconsumers.org/bodycare/drb_compare.cfm
2. For consumers who want NO synthetics and NO synthetic preservatives then food grade organic certification is the only standard that exists to ensure those claims are substantiated. Want truly organic products? Make it easy! Look for the same seal on your skincare and bodycare as you would on your food. USDA Organic or Australian Certified Organic are two examples depending on where you live. If you are still confused, I have an entire section on my website dedicated to helping consumers read labels, sort through misinformation and marketing hype and how to find the level of organic products that is right for them.
http://organicglow.com/about/educating-consumers/
3. In response to Dave’s comment above… you mention the NYR ingredients are all from plant sources, but that doesn’t mean the final formulation is natural or organic. Its the processing of these natural and organic ingredients that transforms them into synthetics. Looking at a few NYR products I see Sodium lauroyl sarcosinate, Cocamidopropyl betaine, which I noticed in the face wash and Coco-glucoside, Ammonium lauryl sulfate and hydroxypropyltrimonium chloride in the Rose Shampoo. These ingredients do not grow on trees…. and even if they are “naturally derived” they have been transformed from their natural state as existing in nature. One of my past blog posts may be of help if you are interested in learning more about how processing is transformative in regards to organic/natural products and their ingredients http://organicglow.com/2012/09/hidden-ingredients-may-be-aging-your-skin/
Obviously the author knows nothing about mlm and network marketing but refers to them as pyramid schemes. Actually the people on the “bottom” can make more than the “top” which is not a pyramid…also anything with a real product line is not a pyramid. You should educate yourself before you write articles.
I hope I can help clarify the differences in the marketing types that are mentioned above. A pyramid is illegal. A person is enrolled into a program for a fee. There is no product sold or service provided. The only way to get his/her money back is to recruit more unknowing victims.
Multi-level marketing is often confused with network marketing. In multi-level marketing those at the bottom of the organization are not purchasing directly from the company. A product or service is being sold. However, the enrollee is usually purchasing from someone in their upline (not directly from the company). That’s why it is called MULTI LEVEL.
Network marketing or Direct sales is what we’re talking about here with the more traditional party plans. A product is being sold. A person at the bottom can choose to recruit or can choose to make money entirely off their own sales. If you have someone at the bottom who is working hard to sell the product and someone at the top who is only doing the bare minimum, the person at the bottom can very well make more than the person at the top.
Wow…obviously, the brains were missing in the majority of these posts, including the OP. Ignorance is bliss (or stupidity in this case).
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