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AAaaaaah! Oh well, better to know late than never.
I guess I will apply at different times in the routine – maybe the Matryxyl will play nicer with the 23% Vit C+ HA than Buffet! One can hope – and that never runs out over here.
Ciao,L@pazzaglia I know which one Gosh they have such a Long name. Australian BUSH Flower Extracts, I just use ABFE.
can I trouble you to take a photo or link? They do have many. That woman one has a lovely lovely fragrance, makes me wanna dip a whole bottle in a soup & feed it to everyone if my Mother or his Mother come to visit
MIL : I completely understand. I need more for my own Mother than his TBH. Better go hit some health food shops. Going for family vacation, I need some ABFE. And another bottle for my sister … deep breath…
Abba grant me strength, peace & patience. Amen
I still have my doubts about Buffet compatibility with LAA or the Vitamin C suspension. I will come back with evidence why Matrixyl is not compatible with any vitamin C variants especially LAA… waiting period in between is best.
To be confirmed
Yeah well, I don’t think palmitic acid and amino acids (aka matrixyl) are incompatible with Vitamin C. Perhaps pure copper, but Deciem even explicitly states the NIOD CAIS does not contain copper. Copper is really bad for your skin.CAIS (and NIOD’s view generally) is to approach the root cause instead of individual issues. I will highlight this approach in CAIS. CAIS contains 1% pure copper peptides. Copper peptides are in human plasma and attract copper in to allow tissue repair functions. While the level of copper in our system stays stable as we age (and is diet dependent also), the level of copper peptides drops by nearly 70% into our 60’s. So the copper is actually available in the body but cannot be taken in to be used for ongoing repair of small things that are constantly going wrong (stress, hormones, pollution, sugar levels, etc.). By supplementing copper peptides, we’re focusing on the support of skin health instead of targeting a specific issue.
Please note: a) The 1% concentration should not to be confused with large percentage numbers used by brands referring to active complexes like Matrixyl that themselves contain very small amounts of peptides. 1% is an extremely high concentration of pure peptides and I have never seen any amount close to this number in any skincare. b) CAIS contains absolutely no copper and I discourage the use of copper in skincare it oxidizes and it’s unnecessary (we have a lot of copper in our system).Peter & Preciousa – I’m going to go back and read all of your comments about the other Vitamin C serums from The Ordinary in the parallel discussion here. I’ve come to the conclusion that I just can’t make the 23% + HA work in my routine. If I add it after serums, the granules scrape off the serum. If I add it before creams (my retin-a equivalent) the cream slides everywhere and can’t be applied. So, when it runs out I’ll be looking to try an alternative – or just go back to my usual Vit C. serum. It was a fun experiment, and it was cheap. But I’m cheaper – gotta finish it somehow before I move on.
BTW, I just got my box of more gooodieeees!! So excited, it wasn’t going to be delivered until the 27th so imagine my surprise to find the deliveryman holding their cute little Abnormal Company box at my door today!!I’m going to try the Niacinamide on my face and Matrixyl on my neck right away.This is the Australian Bush Flower Extract “flavor” I take- I just noticed there tons of other products besides the drops.Did you read the label on yours? What do you think of the ingredients? I guess you can’t list “essence” by weight? Kinda weird, don’t know what makes them work so well. รนMerry Christmas and Happy Holidays everyone!!!Ciao,LOK, based on your discussions, my next purchase will be the Vitamin C Tetra – though I may skip it altogether since the herbalist recommended I take Vitamin C during the winter to keep up my immunity- I found one that comes with Hyaluronoic Acid, too. So, depending on the results, those might be two creams I won’t have to slather, anymore.
I’ve been playing with my new Ordinary serums – the Niacinamide and HA and, maybe because they are “suspensions” I’ve gotten lots of “pilling”. Have you guys experienced any pilling with Ordinary products? What is the best way to get around that? I’ve followed the application and layer methods described (water based, suspension, then cream) but no joy.I’ve gone as far as patting on the final cream layer – but I end up using too much product on and then instead of pilling right away, I peel during the day, while I’m out and about, talking my cheeks start to pill off.Not NICE!BTW, I noticed that on “The Buffet” page they are up-seeling Hylamide SubQ, now. I knew it!So, if the only difference between the two is that Hylamide also contains retinols and a copper complex… and I’m already using prescription Tretinoin and my hydrating cream already has copper peptides, then I probably don’t even need upgrading to it when buffet runs out, right?Ciao,LDo you mean you’re only going to take vitamin C as a supplement, and not in your skincare routine? Topical Vitamin C can reduce free radical damage quite effectively, I think it’s an essential ingredient in your skincare.I also had some pilling with the Vitamin C suspension. Also when I let the products dry too much between steps they can start pilling. I don’t have any pilling with the tetra vitamin C, because it’s more kind of a light oil.Yes, they want you to buy Hylamide or NIOD instead of the Ordinary. There are some good products in the NIOD and Hylamide line, but that doesn’t mean The Ordinary doesn’t contain very good actives. The SubQ doesn’t contain retinol, only peptides, hyaluronic acid and some copper peptide. I personally think many of the actives in the Hylamide and NIOD line haven’t been researched very well. Retinoic Acid, Niacinamide and Ascorbic Acid have been studied much more, in large double-blind placebo controlled studies. Copper tripeptide has only been studied in vitro on animals, the one study on real human beings couldn’t find any difference with the control site (link). Also their AB Crew Caffeine Shampoo should reduce hair loss and increase hair volume, they refer to this study. But this study was performed in a petri-dish, it has never been proven caffeine will reduce hair loss in a shampoo on real human beings. So I think their claims are a bit exaggerated sometimes.Hi Peter,
I find what you said about reducing drying-time between products to reduce pilling, interesting. I have been playing around with that a little bit since I read your post and I’ve also found it to be true – but in my haste and hurry to apply everything I feel like I’m making a slippery big mess. For example, I apply Buffet, Niacinamide and dab-on the extra matrixyl where I feel I need it. In the hurry I’m probably slathering on more product that I could possibly need! Maybe I should let them start to dry just a LITTLE first?!?! Would love more details on how you do this.In the meantime, I’ve just gotten my hot little hands hands on the Italian Retin-A equivalent liquid solution (Airol .05% Lozione) so I’m going to switch around my routine a bit to work with that. The good thing is it doesn’t have Benzoic Acid as a preservative (yaay, no more fear of making benzene with Vitamin C) the bad news is that it has alcohol (ingredients: Tretinoina (Vitamina A-acido) 0,05%, d,l-a -tocoferolo (Vitamina E), alcool, glicole propilenico) – but I’ve seen mixed information about this.Right now I’m just going to switch-out the Trentinoin cream, but since I can’t purchase the .1% here I’m eventually going to work-up to using .05% twice a day, every day for 6 months and then finally go into “maintenance mode” (just a few times a week).If caffeine could really reduce hair loss, Italy would be home the hairiest men on earth. Well… actually… hmmm…Ciao,LI wait a few seconds, some products don’t cause pilling, but some do. Especially the vitamin C suspension from the ordinary. That’s why I use it as the last step. So I don’t let it dry completely, but I don’t apply them directly over each other either. You have to experiment, but it works for me.
My prescription Retinoic Acid has alcohol as well, it’s a common solvent in pharmaceutical products. glicole propilenico is Propylene Glycol I guess? You can’t use any form of Vitamin A during the day, so you can only use it once a day!Well, I just realized that the solution is very “oily” apparently the supporting ingredients are really written in order – there is more Vitamin E in that bottle than anything else! Next time, I will apply “Buffet” first before the liquid Trentinoin.
The medication “instructions” say to apply it up to twice a day and use a sunscreen during the day. Unlike the cream which cautions to keep the tube away from high temperatures, is light sensitive and must be tossed 2 months after opening – the liquid actually said there are no particular cautions for conservation. Hmmm… I’m not dead-set on setting my face on fire, again but I do wonder whether the actual light sensitivity of trentinoin, beyond the actual skin-peeling implications, depends on the vehicle.BTW – I have been applying The Ordinary Caffeine eye serum twice a day and my brows need about twice as much tweezing! So… who knows. SHRUG! Since that bottle is more than I could possibly finish in a decent amount of time, I may as well try rubbing it on my husband’s increasing forehead to see what happens.CiaoLWaaay off topic, but worth mentioning. I decided to look-up the light sensitivity of Trentinoin myself. Some of these things tend to turn into urban legends and I can’t imagine that a pharmaceutical manufacturer isn’t aware about ingredient degradation in a product they recommend applying twice a day.
I haven’t found exactly what I was looking for (as it applies to the type of formulation I use) but I was able to confirm that photo-sensitivity of Trentinoin appears to depend on the vehicle in which it is delivered. In the study I found, degradation can differ anywhere from 9 – 72%.So, personally a less than 10% degradation for day-wear is negligible. At least for those using a micronized trentinoin formulation, this looks like good news.Ciao,LReally interesting find! As far as I know vitamin A should always be applied at night time, but perhaps micronizing it resolves this problem. I’ve never seen a retinoic acid product on the market where they suggest to apply it twice a day, or during the day.I did a through google search and a I found a few reddit and acne forum mentions of people’s formulations recommending this – the only common thread was that they were posted from people in Europe. My Italian one, too. It says “up to twice a day”.
I read so many posts NOT recommending this application I wondered how one could find a technical reason for it. So that’s where I googled my favorite three-word preamble: “scholarly articles on..”Ciao,LI wanna say a big thanks to the ABFE recommendaton.not related to this topic but it worksTo everyone else..I compared 3 of The Ordinary vitamin C. 2 I can’t use because of this 1 ingredient Coconut Alkanes. The 4th one… i have not tried.
- The Ordinary Vitamin C Suspension 23% + HA Spheres 2% 30ml
- The Ordinary Magnesium Ascorbyl Phosphate 10% 30ml
- The Ordinary Ascorbyl Glucoside Solution 12% 30ml
- The Ordinary Ascorbyl Tetraisopalmitate Solution 20% in Vitamin F 30ml
So only Magnesium Ascorbyl Phosphate 10% i can use. But i can’t use Vitamin C suspension and Ascorbyl Tetraisopalmitate. However, i think the best vitamin C is Ascorbyl Tetraisopalmitate.It could also be purging. To really asses if a product works for you it’s best to use it for couple of months, and then don’t change anything else in your routine. Tretinoin for example can increase acne and clogged pores in the beginning as well. So using it 2 or 3 weeks is too short to say if a product works or not in my opinion.
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