K Beauty : Is a 10 step skincare regemin necessary?

Learn what is really real, in an industry full of fake Forums General K Beauty : Is a 10 step skincare regemin necessary?

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  • #96142
    preciousia
    Member

    No rush!. Whatever that is by the way. RandyS 

    Will poke around for answers on your website. I believe you have some answered.
    Most of which i have done some partial research already… hope you could use them, i do reference my sources whenever possible. 
    Unlike you, I only did Chem-Bio in Cambridge O Levels, that’s all the scientist i got in me. Pretty poor in my science knowledge compared to you 

    ^:)^

    #97520
    FunkyPig
    Member

    I feel I have a little insight as an expat living in SE Asia (Hong Kong) that I rarely see discussed in reference to Asian skincare/beauty, nothing chemistry related though. One HUGE aspect that everyone overlooks is the prevalence of photo and video editing in the kbeauty and Asian beauty online market (western markets too of course, but to a lesser extent from what I’ve seen.) Skin smoothing, whitening, eye enlargement and face shrinking being the most used tools in apps. Ordinary women use these often too, not just bloggers. In the many years I’ve lived overseas this is something I’ve become very aware of. It’s not unusual to meet someone in person that you’ve only known online and barely recognize them. A good way to spot heavy editing is fuzzy, poreless skin (everyone has pores!) and blurry or disappearing nostrils. Maybe, in the way that cosmetic surgery is more acceptable here, heavy editing is also not as taboo? If you want to see video editing in action youtube makeup artist Wayne Goss did an excellent video called, “warning, you are being lied to.” The name of a very popular app in china is ‘meitu,’ It’s been around for years. There is now an English version called ‘beautycam.’ Play around with it and you can also have perfect skin and look ten years younger! Lol.

    Cosmetic procedures, whether invasive or not, are also more affordable and acceptable. Story time: I’m married to a Hong Kong man and at family dinners I have overheard the women talking about what procedures they want/have, one even getting them to shrink her leg muscles so she could wear a pair of boots! This is very taboo to my western family, my mom freaked when I told her about this, lol!

    I think the reality of Asian skincare is much more mundane and normal than people think. Most women I know here wear sunscreen, while most of my western friends don’t, and many westerners tan! Pale skin is desirable here, in the US….not so much. I have even experienced ‘sunscreen shaming’ by my western friends, lol! I think this plays a much bigger role than snail goo, just a thought….lol. It’s also common to see older ladies carrying umbrellas in sunshine. I have also seen Asian women married to Western men who have loads of freckles and sun damage from adapting this western concept of tanning. Something to keep in mind.

    There are also many people who think that ‘Asian style’ makeup is more youthful compared to contoured western makeup, and I agree. It’s also important to consider the ‘other-race’ effect, I think that people are not very good at determining the age of races they are not used to seeing. I have had MANY MANY Chinese people assume I am 16 years old! I am almost 28! I often hear westerners say an Asian looks very young when, to me, being married into an Asian family and very used to seeing them think most of them look their age.

    I do agree that it is easier to find skincare basics at an affordable price here, like retinols, sunscreens, ahas etc. I think more people here practice good common sense skincare. I have personally had a lot of luck finding affordable Japanese products! :) I really think that most of the things heard about Asian skincare is hype, coming mostly from teenage girls enamored with anything Korean/Asian because of Asian media, lol. I don’t think editing or cosmetic procedures are a negative thing (I use the Chinese app within reason, lol) but I think there are a lot of misunderstandings about the beauty industry here, and people only hear the hype. Sorry for the long post, this is very interesting to me!

    #97521
    FunkyPig
    Member

    I promise I separated that into coherent paragraphs, it just didn’t work. I’m a noob. :-S So the Tldr: I doubt snail goo, and placenta have magic anti aging properties that give the blurry skin you see online. That’s the heavy photo/video editing that is rampant in Asia. Cosmetic surgery and sunscreen are also more common than in the west. I would look for inexpensive proven to work ingredients in Asian skincare. Sunscreen, retinol, aha etc.

    #97531
    PerryR
    Member

    @FunkyPig – I think it is a software issue. I’ll look to fix it.

    #97532
    kimmycoo99
    Member

    Wow, this is a long thread!

    When I first heard about the whole Korean skincare craze I decided to do some research and well, I came to the conclusion that it is simply a marketing gimmick.

    Koreans are known for their porcelain, clear, youthful skin (at least by westerners), but that’s not the reality. It is true though that eastern Koreans have been practicing intense self-grooming since during the Han Dynasty or Three Kingdoms.

    Exfoliation and skin whitening (or lightening, I really don’t see the difference) is their main practice. A lot of Eastern Korean mothers still take their daughters to bathhouses starting as young as 4 years old to get scrubbed down with towels to remove (quite a bit, they’re not gentle) dead skin.

    As for skin whitening, it started off as a representation of your social status. The lighter your skin the higher you were in society. They believed the darker your skin was a sign that you were a laborer and were overly exposed to the sun.

    I want to reference back to @pma ‘s comment about the abundance of ingredients like niacinamide, retinoids, etc in Korean skin care products and say that I have to disagree. The use of these (mainly these two) ingredients is so rare that Koreans actually use retinoids as a last effort attempt. Finding Korean products with retinoids is actually really hard.

    There are a lot of big Korean brands in the US as well. Peach and Lilly, for example, have started selling their sister brand’s (Peach Slices) products at CVS. & that’s just one example, I could name quite a few other popular Korean skincare brands off the top of my head.

    To sum it up, these Korean skincare brands are trying to convince consumers that these new and exotic ingredients are GREAT for your skin. They have no scientific evidence to support their claims 99.9% of the time though. But I’m not shaming all Korean brand products. I use Banila Co.’s Clean it Zero to remove my makeup and I love it, so hey, they’re not all made from pig intestine or whatever.

    #97534
    RandyS
    Member

    Excellent assessment, thanks!

    #97537
    el705
    Member

    Remember back in the day it was all SWISS skincare, then the FRENCH knew it all. Now the KOREANS know it all. Who is next?
    it is all fad and gimmick to me, I have used mostly Estee all my years and at 47 I have not one line on my face, so who knows?

    #97575
    Le_IsMe
    Member

    Super interesting thread and glad to hear there is no need to up my routine to 10 steps! Thanks RandyS and shar037

    #97584
    elaniwa
    Member

    Whew, I seemed to have written so much it’s become an essay and I couldn’t fit in one post. I didn’t realise how much context was needed to fully explain what I knew about AB and what I like about it. Nevertheless, I hope you find it insightful and useful, and if you have any questions you can ask me or jump into the Reddit AB community with me.

    PART ONE
    _________________________________

    I wanted to give my input as someone who has been a lurker of r/AsianBeauty and started an Asian Beauty (AB) routine 6 months ago. Note that I’m coming from a viewpoint of using AB products from a US standpoint, with accessibility and what is discussed online in the English AB community; I didn’t get into AB while I lived in Asia. (And I didn’t live in East Asia.) Additionally, the international AB scene is mostly influenced by Korean skincare in particular due to the Hallyu/Korean Wave (the push for Korean soft power influence internationally, which includes kpop). Here are my reasons why I prefer an AB routine over a Western one.

    Very generally, skincare in East Asia can be seen not so much as a splurge but as a way to look after oneself – a step in your daily routine that is normal. This means that in a typical population it is more likely that more people will look after that skin, however this doesn’t mean that everyone has a skincare routine. As with any group, there are people who follow the status quo and people who don’t. This is in contrast to the message Western media about the “Korean 10-step skincare routine” as something all Koreans do and that’s why all Koreans have wonderful skin. (Like all stereotypes, there is untruth in them.) I speculate one of the reasons why skincare is more normalised in Korea is due to how competitive it is there, whether it be for education or employment, and having the appearance of someone who looks after themselves could be the small advantage over another peer and in particular when headshots are still required when applying to jobs. This also can be seen in how plastic surgery in Korea can is viewed a more of a minor undertaking (depending on the operation), versus its image in the West; it is not wrong to improve oneself, especially where competition is so high. (I am generalising a lot, there are many more factors in why plastic surgery is prevalent in Korea.) Skincare can be as normal as going for a haircut, for all genders and just as important as other aspects like makeup; Chizu Saeki, a skincare guru who advocates for Japanese skincare, says one should spend as much time taking off makeup as putting it on.

    As a result, the AB market is very competitive and lacks brand loyalty, instead of looking for the best products among all brands. This pushes brands to innovate often and quickly, which I enjoy (currently since I have yet to be devastated by a reformulation) since it pushes for genuinely good products and more recent discoveries to reach the market faster. There is a huge availability of samples to use before commiting to a full-size purchase, so a product really has to be good to justify the spending. On the flipside, it means that there are a lot of gimmicks (overturning the oh-it’s-not-from-where-I’m-from-therefore-all-their-products-must-be-superior stereotype), which can be seen in long ingredient lists and highly fragranced products, and since studies take time to conduct there may be no scientific-backing as of when the product launched.

    Another aspect of AB I like is that AB is very much focused on being gentle with your skin. Being gentle means that there is no heavy scrubbing, no strong acids and less drying cleansers since skin is something that has to be looked after. Washing your skin with a lot of force could contribute to its wear and tear, similar to how it’s recommended to not sleep on your face since the force of doing so contributes to wrinkles. However this means that those that want stronger AHAs and BHAs often look towards Western brands, but the fun part of having an AB routine in the West is that I can mix and match.

    #97585
    elaniwa
    Member

    PART TWO
    _________________________________

    Sunscreen gets its own point here. Dermatologists everywhere recommend sunscreen as the best protection, but it hasn’t been widely adopted in the general American population where sunscreen is seen more as something to wear on the beach. AB emphasises daily sunscreen use, and its adoption as a habit in the general population is contributed by pale skin as the beauty ideal historically, indicating little-to-no menial work and exposure to the sun. This contributes to the high importance in sunscreen, with more UV filters being approved more quickly, emphasis on UVA protection being important with a UVA protection unit (the PA system in Japan and Korea, like PPD in Europe) and how cosmetically AB elegant sunscreens can be. I have never had so much joy in putting on sunscreens until I tried a couple Japanese sunscreens; the ones I’ve tested are so smooth, light and not sticky, with no whitecast. (A demo of the Skin Aqua UV Moisture Milk, a Japanese sunscreen). The effect can be seen in the skin cancer rate by country: the US is 19th with 3.21 deaths per 100,000, with South Korea being 145th with 0.71 per 100,000 and Japan 157th with 0.50 per 100,000.

    One of the key proponents of AB is the customisability factor. AB seeks to treat one’s skin concerns and goals through several products that have a more focused goal, assuming that a product that does too many things doesn’t do any of them well at all. Randy himself says here that “using separate products will always be more efficacious… because you have to make trade offs when formulating combination products.” This developed into having multiple steps in a routine and the “Korean 10-step skincare routine” hype, in contrast to slapping on one product and calling it a day in the typical American population. I prefer the customisability aspect because skin can behave differently (e.g. combo-type skin), one can have different goals on different parts of the face (e.g. pigmentation may only be an issue on cheeks) and budget. This way you can use a product where it’s needed most since one-size-fits-all solutions tend not to work that well. However this has lead to the marketing push that one must have a 10-step routine if you want to get into Korean skincare, a capitalist ploy to get people to purchase a huge amount of products instead of slowly building a routine that the online Western and AB communities endorse.

    One of the most important aspects of AB for me is the budgeting factor. AB is so much more accessible since it comes at many different price points and in particular lower price points, versus Western skincare tends to be priced USD$40+ in my experience. The competition factor plays a part here in driving prices down, and that has allowed me to get into skincare at a younger age than I would have. It’s why brands like Cerave and The Ordinary have been such disruptors in the Western skincare scene because of their lower price point while still being effective.

    The last point I want to make is that there is an element of international appeal and/or exoticisation in AB. AB packaging and marketing is more fun and colourful compared to Western counterparts, such as with sheet masks being easy foot-in-the-door AB products to give to others and funny packaging like banana hand cream. There also is the idea that since it’s come from abroad it’s weirder (see Western media puzzled over “snail goo”) and possibly better. According to this article, Koreans think k-beauty is more for teenagers and prefer European brands themselves (how true it is, I don’t know), showing that products being from abroad could be more appealing to people, no matter where they’re from.

    #97790

    I guess every skin type is different and not every need will need to slather so much of products that can potentially clog pores. I just use a snail cream sometimes on my cleansed skin.

    #97799
    elixirhtcisb
    Member

    I would say this is very nice to disuccus about important tips about the skincare these are very much important for the skin care it’s should be followed accordingly then you will get your desire skin… for hair loss I would suggest best hair transplantation center vist for more information..

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