escherichia i tried the Innisfree pure mineral one in the store.. it rubs in clear. very cosmetically elegant. no indication of the % of actives though.
@Peter Perhaps you would be interested in this Australian Sunscreen
active ingredients: Tinabsorb S & M, Vitamin B3 and antioxidants
no white cast... i asked my friend to take a photo of the back of the sunscreen for me to check the ingredients. No ingredients anywhere for this company, i have started sharing (typing out) the ingredients from the label to share on COSDNA.
He goes out in the sun a lot and he was raving about this sunscreen! i have 3 of Skinstitut products and they are very nice. i like them very much and will repurchase.
Hi I saw your list of sunscreen ingredient rank. Then according to your list, I searched Tinosorb S sunscreen on the internet. Then I found this blog: http://blog.pharmacymix.com/?s=Tinosorb&Submit=Go, which say that Anthelio XL and Bioderma sunscreen are both effective Tinosorb S sunscreen. Does it true and reliable?Could you explain the differences between these two brands of sunscreen? Thank you.
this video is a lil long but good to watch for a clear understanding from a doctor's point of view
UK most famous blogger Caroline Hirons asks Dr Marko Lens who is a consultant, plastic and reconstructive surgeon and a skin specialist. "THE MAN" to go to if you have any skin issues.
They answer everything you wanted to know about sunscreen but am afraid to ask.
2 parts
Questions asked in this video:
Why do we need to wear SPF?
What is your biggest issue with the misconceptions around SPF?
Where do you start?
Pre-cancerous moles: for the chop or just keep an eye?
What is the difference between physical and chemical SPF?
What should we use? Chemical or physical?
And does that depend on your age and skin colouring?
Is a physical sunscreen 'natural'?
Is a physical sunscreen safe?
If you layer SPF products do they accumulate or are you only as protected as the highest individual SPF?
What would you recommend that I use on my baby/child? (Surprising answer here parents!)
What should you use if you have acne?
What should you avoid if you have acne?
When do you apply your SPF? Before or after moisturiser?
How do you use SPF correctly? How much for what body part?
Is it possible to have an anti-ageing moisturiser that contains SPF without compromising efficacy?
Does historical use of sunbeds/irresponsible sunbathing affect your skin in later years?
Can we cover up too much from the sun? Are we putting ourselves at risk of vitamin D deficiency?
Thanks for the videos! But the moment Dr Lens said that "...chemical sunscreens are absorbed by the skin..." and "...zinc oxide is toxic to fish....", I was like -_-". I guess the Beauty Brains were right; dermatologists don't know sunscreens as well as cosmetic scientists.
However I did like the skin-related stuff though, esp. precancerous moles. Just in the last two years, I've had moles 'appearing magically' overnight on my face because I was out in the hot sun (mid-noon highest UV index!) WITHOUT sunscreen.
Well I understand you lean towards physical filters with the sites you mention. But that site doens't make a distinction between the old sunscreen actives and the newer ones, also the information isn't completely correct. They don't mention the first 8 filters of my sunscreen list. Tinosorb, Uvinul, Mexoryl may be "chemical" filters, but they don't have the downsides of the old sunscreen actives like homosalate, octinoxate and benzophenone mentioned.
On the site of Beautyeditor they say on point three chemical sunscreen actives cause cell damage, and physical sunscreens don't, but that's not true either. Nano-titanium dioxide / nano zinc oxide are photo-catalysts and need stable coatings, and even then they still release some free radicals. Also because they are in the nano range they don't reflect all radiation, they also absorb raditon, and there's still concern of absorption and inhalation. Also they almost never cause allergic reaction, but irritation has been reported. And about reapplying, well sunscreens must stay stable for 2 hours, after that sunscreens quite rapidly degrade. That's why you need to reapply. But the newer "chemical" are so photostable even after 8 hours, almost the whole sunscreens is still intact, and because it's better absorbed in the stratum corneum it's more difficult to rub of than physical filters.
So saying physical is good and "chemical" is bad, may perhaps be not a very unrealistic statement for america, but in Europe, Australia and Japan newer better chemical filter have been used for years already. Personally I think Tinosorb, Uvinal A Plus, Uvinul and Mexoryl and Zinc Oxide/Titanium Dioxde are better than nano Zinc Oxide/Titanium Dioxde, and nano physical filters are way better than oxybezone, ethylhexyl methoxycinnamate, homosalate and octocrylene. Many scaremongering articles come from America, and that's not strange from what I've just described.
Most french sunscreens (like Bioderma and La Roche Posay Anthelio XL) use Tinosorb and Mexoryl, but they combine it with older filters like Octocrylene, Avobenzone. Sunscreens start appearing with only the good filters from my list. What's the difference between Bioderma and La Roche Posay. Well Mexoryl is made by Loreal, and loreal owns La Roche Posay, therefore La Roche Posay contains a small amount of Mexoryl in general. Bioderma uses Tinosorb S and Tinosorb M very often. If you have some ingredient lists for me, I can have a look at them.
As referenced on the other thread, zinc oxide and titanium dioxide does not cause any risk when applied to the skin as confirmed with over 10 years research by Australia TGA.
I am particularly concerned how zinc oxide and titanium dioxide is bad for the marine.
I appreciate Peter's research from Europe. In Australia where I am in and in USA, sunscreen is treated as a medicine/drug. In Europe, as Dr Lens say, it is a cosmetic. Thus the different emphasis & choice of ingredients.
I am unsure how Europe regulate /test sunscreens. Dr Lens did say he doesn't trust the PPD, but prefer Japanese system of PA system better.
Particular keen on only 4 chemical sunscreen filters ingredients only. The only issue is finding chemical sunscreen containing only these 4 ingredients
The ones I'll consider are: #1,2 & 7 from my list of sunscreens (as suggested by Peter)
Particularly if they are mixed with zinc oxide or titanium dioxide.
@Peter are Uvinul A plus and Uvinul T150 made by BASF ? Looks like BASF has done some very good R&D with Tinorsorb & Uvinul! These are the chemical sunscreen I would consider only.
Sunscreen should not be treated like medicine, whether chemical or physical I think it is very important you do not dislike using it, as Dr Lens said, you need to like it otherwise you would not use it.
I would consider only 6 ingredients in my sunscreen. Thanks to Peter we are so much more knowledgeable in chemical sunscreens, on behalf of the community THANK YOU!
As you mentioned about the Anthelio sunscreen which contains some old filters, does it mean you will recommend Bioderma which effectively use Tinosorb S? Or do you know any brand that has very effective sunscreen ingredient such as Tinosorb S?
Indeed BASF creates all kinds of ingredients for cosmetic products including sunscreen actives, it is one of the largest companies in this industry and is located in Germany, it has a good reputation.
It doesn't look she's applying 1/2 a teaspoon.
Regulation of sunscreens in Europe is indeed different, however that doesn't mean sunscreens are less effective, it may even have advantages over the FDA system. In most comparisons European sunscreens had significantly better UVA protection than American sunscreens. Because sunscreens are regulated as cosmetics, more companies are investing in developing newer better sunscreen actives. PPD ratings are almost never mentioned in Europe, those tests are too unreliably. Sunscreens must meet the 1/3 of the SPF protection factor as Dr Lens said.
I see the formulation of the La Roche Posay and the Bioderma are different than we have here in Europe. So maybe for the international market they reformulate some sunscreens?
The Bioderma uses Avobenzone (Butyl Methoxydibenzoylmethane), which is unstable on its own, but can be stabilized by adding Octocrylene and Tinosorb M (a newer more stable alternative to Avobenzone is Uvinal A Plus, which also has a better safety profile). I see the product contains some Alcohol Denat. But overall it is a good sunscreen, with relatively high amounts of Tinosorb. This specific version is discontinued however, but the new version has almost the same ingredients and a UVA rating of 42, without the parabens and alcohol. Ectoin has some research indicating it protects skin from UV-damage. It does leave a very noticeable white cast, due to the Tinosorb M.
Thank you very much. Will the Bioderma sunscreen be greasy and comedogenic due to the noticeable white cast? And Is the new Bioderma sunscreen you talked about, Cicabio sunscreen?
Bioderma has about 30 different sunscreens here in Europe, all of them contain blends of Octocrylene, Avobenzone and Tinosorb. But you can see it yourself on the site of Bioderma ;-)
I didn't find the Max Lait SPF50 extremely greasy but it wasn't mat either. But the white cast was what I didn't like, you really look like a ghost with that product. The one that's most natural looking is the Photoderm AR SPF50+-UVA 33:
I use Derma Sollotion SPF30 and Uncover Skincare SPF15 at the moment for 3 weeks now, each one on one half of my face. Website www.derma.dk. You have to translate, or at least I can't read Danish.
Uncover Skincare SPF15-UVA13 (I've chosen the SPF15, because the SPF30-UVA22 is really white, and then I wouldn't be able to do a split face comparison):
I had a look at Derma Sollotion SPF30:, there is only 1 active ingredient which i like but the coverage is only UVA and not all of UVA too No UVB coverage either. Not broad spectrum unfortunately.
@Peter ;the Uncover Skincare looks really good. Any idea how we can buy it?
Uncover Suncare SPF 30 by Dr Jetske Ultee EUR 39,95
• Protects against UVA and UVB radiation • Contains safe solar filters Tinosorb S and Tinosorb M • Niacinamide, caffeine and vitamin E for extra protection • Do not leave any white film behind
BASF also makes a patented nanosized Zinc oxide called Z-Cote® i shared earlier. Am aware of BASF as a chemical company, i was in their office before briefly work related. I always thought it was industrial related, never thought one day i could be using a product containing something made by them.
I do see the European cosmetic companies investing more money in sunscreens, could be because of their size, same R&D costs can be divided into different sub-brands and made cost-effective.
In Australia, sunscreen is made affordable. Crazy cheap. So cheap that you don't think twice about using 35ml for the whole body. As cheap as under AUD$20 for 500ml i have seen (chemical ones). The beaches are soooooo beautiful too, better than the caribbean imho.
In comparison, there are less incentives for the companies locally to R&D. We also have less large MNCs in Australia, the good companies tend to get sold off to USA or Europe. Sad really.
The Derma Sollotion has an SPF of 30 so pretty good UVB coverage, it contains 3 uv actives. Ethylhexyl Triazone (Uvinul T150) is an extremely strong UVB filter, Diethylhexyl Butamido Triazone ( Uvasorb HEB) is considered the improved version of Uvinul T150 and protects against UVB and UVA. Also the Derma contains Diethylamino hydroxybenzoyl hexyl benzoate (Uvinal A Plus), which has the widest UVA coverage after Tinosorb M.
The Uncover Skincare uses only Tinosorb, I haven't seen a brand doing this before. This results in the widest most broadspectrum UVB and UVA coverage possible. What I also really like about the products, they are formulated by dermatologist Dr. Jetske Ultee, she uses airless packaging and very good anti-oxdidants. I'm in love with her moisturizers, with Vitamin C and Niacinamide, she even stores the products refrigerated before shipping, ensuring the active ingredients will not deteriorate.
Looking at the following graph you can see the protection at 1% of sunscreen active: Tinosorb M protects best against UVA around 400 nm, then Uvinal A Plus, then Avobenzone. The only downside to this, it protects so well against UVA radiation that it appears white on skin.
The company Uncover Skincare, sells products in The Netherlands and Germany. Perhaps you can buy online and ship to Australia, I don't know if they do that.
my only gripe is Uncover is soooooo expensive! and if it is white cast, i might as well go to Zinc. At least Zinc oxide will not absorb the UV like chemical sunscreen does.
@Peter, pardon my ignorance, how should i read the absorbance spectra? what does the Y axis represent?
Comments
I am particularly concerned how zinc oxide and titanium dioxide is bad for the marine.
I appreciate Peter's research from Europe. In Australia where I am in and in USA, sunscreen is treated as a medicine/drug. In Europe, as Dr Lens say, it is a cosmetic. Thus the different emphasis & choice of ingredients.
I am unsure how Europe regulate /test sunscreens. Dr Lens did say he doesn't trust the PPD, but prefer Japanese system of PA system better.
I've done 2 blog posts from Peter's notes.
- 7 chemical sunscreens to consider
- chemical sunscreen myths busted & which to avoid
Also did a little more research, though not complete.
Dr Lens spoke about photostability as an important consideration for sunscreen & but he did not mention hormone disrupters.
The ones I'll consider are:
#1,2 & 7 from my list of sunscreens (as suggested by Peter)
Particularly if they are mixed with zinc oxide or titanium dioxide.
Looks like BASF has done some very good R&D with Tinorsorb & Uvinul! These are the chemical sunscreen I would consider only.
I would consider only 6 ingredients in my sunscreen. Thanks to Peter we are so much more knowledgeable in chemical sunscreens, on behalf of the community THANK YOU!
Do you think she is applying enough quantity of sunscreen? I like the EltaMD sunscreen she recommended, I have added it to my wish list too.
Water (Aqua), Dicaprylyl Carbo-Nate, Octocrylene, Methylene Bis-Benzotriazolyl Tetramethylbutylphenol, Butyl Methoxydibenzoylmethane, Cyclomethicone, Alcohol Denat., C20-22 Alkyl Phosphate, Bis-Ethylhexyloxyphenol Methoxyphenyl Triazine, Ptfe, C20-22 Alcohols, Tocopheryl Acetate, Ectoin, Mannitol, Xylitol, Rhamnose, Fructooligosaccharides, Laminaria Ochroleuca Extract, Decyl Glucoside, Xanthan Gum, Ammonium Acryloyldimethyltaurate/Vp Copolymer, Disodium Edta, Sodium Hydroxide, Propylene Glycol, Citric Acid, Caprylic/Capric Triglyceride, Phenoxyethanol, Methylparaben, Propylparaben, Ethylparaben.
Absorb into the blood
Release free radicals in sunlight
Act like estrogen
Disrupt hormones
Cause allergic reactions
Cause skin irritation
this is interesting. Shame about Octocrylene > Allergies: Relatively high rates of skin allergy and Avobenzone > absorbed into the body.
Active Ingredients
Titanium Dioxide 6% (sunscreen) • Zinc Oxide 5% (sunscreen)
Inactive ingredients
INGREDIENTS - INCI
AQUA/WATER/EAU, C12-15 ALKYL BENZOATE, DIETHYLAMINO HYDROXYBENZOYL HEXYL BENZOATE, HOMOSALATE, ETHYLHEXYL METHOXYCINNAMATE, ETHYLHEXYL SALICYLATE, ETHYLHEXYL TRIAZONE, GLYCERIN, BIS-ETHYLHEXYLOXYPHENOL METHOXYPHENYL TRIAZINE, BUTYLENE GLYCOL, NYLON 6/12, CYCLOPENTASILOXANE, CAPRYLYL METHICONE, SILICA, SODIUM CITRATE, MANNITOL, XYLITOL, RHAMNOSE, COPPER SULFATE, ZINC SULFATE, SODIUM HYALURONATE, VITIS VINIFERA (GRAPE) VINE EXTRACT, ASIATICOSIDE, ASIATIC ACID, MADECASSIC ACID, ECTOIN, POLYACRYLATE CROSSPOLYMER-6, HYDROXYETHYL ACRYLATE/SODIUM ACRYLOYLDIMETHYL TAURATE COPOLYMER, DICAPRYLYL CARBONATE, 1,2-HEXANEDIOL, CAPRYLYL GLYCOL, DIMETHICONE/VINYL DIMETHICONE CROSSPOLYMER, CYCLOMETHICONE, STEARALKONIUM HECTORITE, LAURETH-3, POLYSORBATE 60, SORBITAN ISOSTEARATE, HYDROXYETHYLCELLULOSE, PROPYLENE CARBONATE, ACETYL DIPEPTIDE-1 CETYL ESTER, BHT, POTASSIUM SORBATE, TOCOPHEROL, CITRIC ACID. [BI 689]
btW, if you wanna see more detailed information, here is the website: http://www.bioderma.com/en/our-products/cicabio/spf-50
INCI:
• Contains safe solar filters Tinosorb S and Tinosorb M
• Niacinamide, caffeine and vitamin E for extra protection
• Do not leave any white film behind